Atelier Doré

I think that the fur conversation suffers from a lack of understanding of the complete picture and also it seems the ability to live with hypocrisy. I remember wearing a vintage fur coat that belonged to my grandmother. I was in NYC and an anti-fur activist came up to me with video camera and a rubber skinned fox, telling me fur is murder and etc. Well I said to him and on camera « I understand and respect your opinion. However, the animal who made this coat is dead and so is my grandmother who gave it to me – I call that even. » He stopped filming and walked away.

Haha! Great response! I honestly don’t know what to think about that subject. All I know is that I don’t feel comfortable knowing I’m wearing a dead animal’s hair… Eventhough I LOVE leather and wouldn’t trade that fabric for anything. Tough call
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Same here. Vintage furs that belonged to my great-grandmother, I don’t see what’s wrong with that. And I also don’t see why we can wear leather and not fur – as long as the animals are treated well, that is.

I feel each of us must decide what is right for ourselves. I eat meat, wear leather and adore my silver fox fur collar. That being said, I stopped eating veal when I discovered at 10 years old that it was made from baby cows. I still can’t bring myself to eat it to this day, I’m 37, as the idea turns my stomach despite knowing how delicious it is. And I don’t think I could feel comfortable wearing a full fur coat, despite my love of my fur collar. I also love the look of a zebra rug but only the printed calf hair ones. The real zebra skin rugs with the mane attached look to me like road kill. I stayed at 6 Columbus, a Thompson Hotel in NYC, and the lobby is lined in pony skin floor to three story ceiling, it made me nauseous. Apparently, for me, too much becomes grotesque.

The debate of vintage vs. new is silly. As the previous poster said, wearing vintage encourages others to go out and buy new. It’s a vicious cycle. I find the comfort vintage fur wearers find to be similar to the delusion people who wear big fat « conflict free » diamonds tell themselves. Sorry, but it may make you feel better about your choice, but you are still promoting an industry with a dark history of cruelty.

When Jackie Kennedy wore a leopard coat when her husband was president, the demand for leopard coats became so great that over 250K leopards were killed nearly wiping out leopards from the planet. Oleg Cassini, the coats designer, felt so badly about the terrible effect his design had, that he totally stopped using fur and helped develop fashionable alternatives to fur.

Obviously, I am conflicted and more than a little bit of a hypocrite. For now I draw the line at excessive displays of fur. I would never want a real leopard fur coat, but I do enjoy my faux coat. It looks just like the one Emmanuelle Alt wears and I got it for $30 at Forever21. And I will continue to wear my fox fur collar, it is unapologeticly fabulous. If I could look so good after I die, I would be happy to be stuffed and put on display. Also, what do you people suggesting others wear wool think, that sheep live happy content lives on resort like farms. Stop kidding yourselves, no industry is completely cruelty free, look at how Apple treats it’s iPhone factory workers.

On a oublié le lien de notre petit post
http://www.matchingpoints.fr/2012/11/27/mode-le-vison-et-nous/

Ce manteau est magnifique, et il est en fausse fourrure! Donc ce n’est peut-être pas nécessaire d’élever des animaux dans le seul but de prélever leur fourrure. Quand je vois de la fourrure de renard par exemple, ça me fait mal au coeur. Stella McCartney prouve que l’on peut faire des défilés sans vraie fourrure car elle n’en utilise pas, et je trouve ça super.

http://www.laurablogmode.com

« Faux » is totally fine for me ! Carine’s Coat is Chic !

I totally understand what you’re saying; fur is so beautiful, but on the other hand it is cruel at the same time.. That is why I prefer vintage fur. Why to kill more animals when there are so many vintage fur coats? And in my opinion these are so much more beautifuller aswell. Same as leather; it needs to ‘live’. Kind of strange to say this about two fabrics which are both from dead animals.. But then the other question; why are people so much against fur and is leather not that big of an issue..? Really difficult discussion.. You kind of have to find your own way in this..

tout pareil, plutôt pour la fourrure de seconde main. Et de façon générale, encourager le « seconde main » un peu pour tout, c’est participer au frein à la surconsommation (puisqu’un nouveau produit n’est pas fabriqué exprès pour l’achat)

carine roitfeld toujours tellement inspirante…
je n’ai pas d’argumentation imparable sous la manche contre la fourrure, peut être car je ne suis pas végétarienne et que je ne porterai pas de vraie fourrure (si j’en avais les moyens) ça c’est sûr
Et puis manger n’est pas se vêtir, et puis je n’ai jamais mangé de python de croco de renard ou de lapin… en bonne française, j’ai été élevé au poulet rôti du dimanche, au gigot pour les fêtes de famille. suis je une criminelle sanguinaire ? je ne me vois pas comme tel mais c’est vrai que je me pose souvent la question de devenir végétarienne dans une société où on mange trop de viande, les usines à poulets comme on en voit dans les reportages me dégoûtent, et je trouve les images d’abattoir insoutenables…
contradiction dites vous ?

No. Go with Stella McCartney. There is simply no need for fur. You can have a perfect show without it. Besides the ethics of killing an animal, the horrendous way it is produced (it is not true that it is more environmentally friendly, it requires huge amounts of chemicals which endanger not only the environment but the people who produce the skins) – besides all that: There is no beauty in death.

With respect – death is an unavoidable part of life. For all of us. I believe that no beauty in death means there is also no beauty in life. BOTH are beautiful, or neither. What gives a death beauty is the dignity and purpose of the life that preceded it.

I agree – Stella has the right approach. Fur/skin free and cruelty free should be the aspiration. I struggle with the ethics of animals myself. I aspire to eat vegan, but I’m not as strict as I’d like to be about dairy and eggs. I would not buy fur or skins, but I buy leather and sometimes use products with fur trim or snakeskin that I’ve had since before I became conscious of the issues. I’d like to eliminate leather – especially if there were more fashionable animal free products like Stella. But I don’t try as hard as I should. I read an interview of Stella and she said something to the effect that developing and using non-animal based products is modern – and that resonated with me. For me, the answer is very simple – we know better. But making the life changes to get there is more difficult than I thought it would be. Even when I could cry at the mere thought that an animal suffered because of me.

Si la fourrure est vintage- qu’est on peut faire? À part ça, je suis d’avis qu’il n’y en a plus besoin de l’utiliser dans la mode. Je pense pas que la fausse fourrure glorifie la situation non plus, mais je peux comprendre ceux qui sont contre cela aussi.

En fait je m’en fiche un peu, qu’on élève des poulets, des porcs et des ânes pour les manger ou bien qu’on élève des vaches, des ratons laveurs et des renards pour leur peau/fourrure, le résultat est le même.
Est-ce qu’on culpabilise le lion ou la guêpe d’être des prédateurs? Bon ok c’est pas la même échelle ect ect.. le débat peut-être interminable et les argument très bons des deux cotés.
Par contre ce manteau est affreux, on dirait qu’elle a mis un déguisement de Winnie l’ourson mais qu’elle a oublié la têtes ;-D

Le Nutella est composé essentiellement d’huile de palme,et pour cultiver la palme, on déforeste à tour de bras. Donc manger du Nutella ne nuit pas qu’à soi-même ;-)

I think Stella McCartney is the perfect example that fashion and show are not only possible, but also glamourous without fur…

Je porte des manteaux de fausse fourrure, l’hiver pour la simple et bonne raison qu’ils me tiennent plus chaud.
La seule chose qui m’agace profondément, ce sont les nanas qui se proclament végétariennes, te font la leçon sur ton régime alimentaire…. et portent fourrure et accessoires en cuir.

Chère Garance et chères toutes
merci pour ce post qui invite peut-être celles qui ne l’auraient pas fait à réfléchir sur leurs pratiques de mode et plus particulièrement sur la fourrure, devenue incroyablement et inacceptablement banalisée, y compris dans la rue.
Je me permets juste d’attirer l’attention sur une chose: la question de la fourrure dépasse largement celle sur la consommation de viande etc. La fabrique de la fourrure s’inscrit dans des pratiques de torture sur l’animal qui place l’enjeu éthique bien plus haut, au niveau de celui de la vivisection.
Donc ce n’est pas une question de passion mais tout simplement de raison.
Voilà, je crois qu’il n’y a ni beauté nu style sans intelligence et conscience, non?
Kiss
N

I’m from Denmark – a small country that colonised Greenland about 500 years ago, to make a long story short … For the people of Greenland, the anti-fur campaigning has been disastrous. They were used to hunting seal, as they always had, for food = pure survival. They used the sealskin for clothing. And when other people discovered Greenland, the natives FOR ONCE got the chance to make a little money by selling sealskin from seals, they had already eaten, as top quality fur coats etc. The anti-fur campaigning put a stop to that. I am absolutely against animal cruelty, meaning bringing up animals and giving them a dismal life purely in order to skin them. But for Greenland, it was a question of survival. I am NOT an expert and might even have gotten details wrong in this little story – but my message is: It’s not a simple issue, and it’s not a question of luxury for everyone.

bonjour garance,
je suis pour la vraie fourrure .
on mange bien de la viande et nos chaussures, sacs et ceintures sont en cuir de vache.
Je porte moi meme de la fourrure .vison , lapin, raccoon et renard .
le vison est comme le lapin : il est élevé en cage.
par contre , je suis contre le fait de porter de la fourrure qui ne viendrait pas d’animaux d’élevage.

Comment ne pas craquer lors d’un défilé Fendi ?????? Dis…c’est une blague cette question ?????

La fourrure, un sujet bien compliqué ..
Je me suis souvent dit qu’il ne fallait pas en acheter, par respect pour les animaux, mais le fait est que je ne peux pas résister, je trouve ça tellement beau, par petites touches, essentiellement sur des manteaux !
Je pense que le principal serait de faire des progrès au niveau de la législation, pour éviter aux animaux de vivre dans des conditions déplorables. Un gros problème serait alors réglé, mais ne retrouve-t-on pas le même problème avec la viande ? Les animaux sont parfois très mal traités et ce sujet concerne beaucoup plus de monde, et pourtant le fait est que nous n’en entendons jamais parler ..

this oversize coat is fantastic!!!

http://www.thestelstyle.com

Hello, i don’t think it is difficult to ‘have a position’. Fur looks beautiful but it is just cruel and so unnecessary, everybody with honesty could agree with that.. You show us beautiful clothes every day who didn’t require an animal to the skinned for it. The whole argument about ‘cavemen did it so it has always been like that’ is frankly hypocrit as we now have so many alternatives. My mother had a fur coat when I was little (inherited from her grand mother) and each time she tried to wear it my sisters and I just wouldn’t talk to her until she took it off. Eventually she gave up. This was in the 70’s. I knew it was wrong then, I know it is wrong now….but i am with you with the fact they look beautiful, the picture shown today proves they can look as stunning fake and no one get skinned!…by the way Garance, since you are a Stella fan I am sure she would have demonstrate to you how wrong it is when you intervied her. She make amazing clothes without killing anyone….who want to walk around wearing a cemetry on her shoulder?……..

Bonjour à toutes,
Merci d’avoir soulevé cette question, je dois avouer que je suis épatée par ce débat respectueux et par les idées échangées ici ! Bravo Garance d’avoir créé ce bel espace de dialogue !
Etant végétarienne et fan de chaussures, je ne suis pas au bout de mes contradictions… Mais je continue ma quête !
Je suis d’accord avec Alexia ; au-delà de la question éthique se pose la question de ce que nous consommons et de comment nous consommons : entre la fast-fashion où l’on achète tout et n’importe quoi sous prétexte de bas prix et le renouvellement complet d’une garde-robe à chaque saison pour celles qui peuvent se l’offrir, il y a plein d’alternatives : s’offrir de belles pièces que l’on garde longtemps, acheter du vintage, encourager les petits créateurs et la mode éthique, recycler/donner/échanger ce que l’on ne porte plus, etc.

Bonjour Garance et merci pour ce post qui fait réfléchir. Je viens souvent surfer sur ton blog sans pour autant commenter. Cette fois voilà, je vais donner mon opinion simple… Chacun doit faire avec sa conscience! Maintenant il est clair que quelqu’un qui signe une pétition pour arrêter les conditions de vie désastreuses et le massacre des visons d’élevage en Belgique mais qui porte une superbe fourrure bein c’est pas honnête.

I’m not a vegetarian either and I have a lot of things made out of leather, so there were many animals killed…. and I have this fur collar which I love, it’s not even vintage….. and I loved many of the accessories from the latest Fendi collection, there was really a lot of fur in so many collections! I respect Stella McCartney a lot, what she does is really consistent and I admire her for that (and many other things…) I’m really not very consistent…. sometimes I think I should…. but then on the other hand I just love a good steak…. and for the fur question… I think it is really important where the fur comes from. There are big differences and I actually wonder, if there is a thing like a « Bio Fur Label », well not bio, but a label that would guarantee a « ok » treatment of the animals before they get killed or a label that would say that it’s « Recycled Fur », is there any such thing? If not, this might be a good thing to try?

J’aime la fourrure et j’assume, mais j’aime les animaux (j’ai un chien :-)). Bon fourrure d’élevage et vintage principalement. Mais c’est vrai que ça me questionne. Il faut, je pense, avoir une consommation modérée, tant au niveau de la viande que dans l’achat de ce type de pièce. Oui mais et le cuir?
http://www.mode9.fr

I see the fur question as quite black and white and i am bemused by people who eat meat or fish, wear leather shoes but are horrified by the idea of wearing fur.

I totally respect stella macartney’s position – as a vegetarian she does not use fur.

When I was vegetarian for 20 years I would not either eat meat, fish or wear fur. However, Now I have decided to eat meat again I just can not logically see the difference between killing an animal to eat or killing an animal to wear. I eat rabbit and I would wear rabbit if the climate i lived in was suitable.

I have always found not eating a particular type of animal because it is perceived as « cute » or somehow anthromorphising it ridiculous. And nothing annoyed me more when i was vege than someone tucking into a steak saying they could never eat a guinea pig (like i did in peru) and this also applies to wearing it.

I would never either eat or wear an endangered animal.

I think that if you are not a vegetarian then it is fine to wear fur.

If the coat is fake fur then I admire the wearer for making a statement. It looks so chic and elegant but also bohemian at the same time. The woman has the look of a very interesting, arresting and beautiful physicality and personality. You captured a moment . . .

AAAH WHAT A GORGEOUS PICTURE..I LOVE CARINE SO MUCH, SO CHIC WITHOUT THAT SUZY MENKES’ CLOWN STUFF SHE WROTE ABOUT:)

FASHION FROM RUSSIA
http://www.diamondsandspikes.com/

Then, do you eat meat? We are not in the cave era anymore and we know how to produce other sources of proteins So we don’t need to kill animals to feed us. Plus it happens that animals we eat are also cute ones: rabbits, veal, lambs, chickens… This is in my opinion a way too easy and hypocritical point of view that you have there…

Joli manteau, ça lui va à ravir !
http://www.thestilettoholic.com/2013/02/25/on-the-road/

« Real fur or fake fur….that is the question…! »
Le manteau de Carine Roitfeld est indéniablement fashion…mais sera-t-il toujours aussi beau dans 3 ans?
Le même en vrai fourrure gardera son aspect, sa classe et sa valeur plus longtemps, me semble-t-il, mais à quel prix? En effet, l’idée d’instaurer des gardes- fous me plairait assez: ne pas tuer d’animaux rares ou en voie d’extinction, établir une filière /traçabilité, obligeant des conditions d’élevage et d’abattage dignes pour les animaux …après tout, il suffit de voir une seule fois des poules élevées en batterie pour ne plus jamais acheter autre chose que de oeufs de poules élevées en plein air …ne peut-on pas faire la même chose pour les bêtes à poil? ça permettrait aux élégantes de ne pas porter leurs manteaux avec toujours un arrière-goût de culpabilité!Allez, go, Garance! c’est des filles comme toi qui peuvent faire avancer les choses!!

J’ai eu un manteau qui ressemblait à celui-là.
En fait, je l’ai toujours, pas folle. C’était un Rodier, d’une époque ils avaient un bon styliste (comme maintenant). La fausse fourrure était dans la même matière que les ours en peluche des années 50, c’est à dire avec une grande proportion de coton. C’est pour ça qu’à part la doublure que j’ai refaite, la pièce a bien vieilli. Parce que c’est un peu le problème avec la fourrure synthétique, on ne peut pas dire que ça se bonifie avec le temps.
Comme j’ai tout de même un côté Cruella, je disais à mes enfants, pendant qu’ils étaient en train de caresser le poil, que c’était de la peau d’ours en peluche et qu’il avait fallu en occire plein pour réaliser le manteau….

Ah Garance, je suis heureuse de lire que je ne suis pas la seule perdue sur le sujet. Pour la rubrique mode que je présente à la télé, j’ai fait un sujet sur la question la semaine dernière. L’angle était simple et partait d’un constat : de plus en plus de fourrure, vraie et fausse, sur les podiums et dans la rue. J’ai filmé les « vraies » gens dans la rue, beaucoup portaient de la vraie fourrure et je dois avouer que c’était beau souvent. J’ai précisé que je ne prenais pas position pour la vraie. Peine perdue. Je me suis fait « assassiner » par les téléspectateurs, et par des mails anonymes.
Ce sujet met les nerfs à vifs apparemment. C’est compréhensible comme tu dis. La question que je me pose : les animaux tués pour leur fourrure sont-ils plus maltraités que ceux élevés en batterie et tués pour être mangés ? Est-ce plus répréhensible de se vêtir que de se nourrir ? Vaste sujet…
Réflexion plus futile : es-tu certaine que c’est un manteau que porte Carine et non pas une robe de chambre en pilou pilou? Mais sur elle tout est permis, non ?
Merci d’avoir soulevé la question. Cette Fashion week on me dit dans l’oreillette que les podiums vont dégouliner de fourrure…Immorale fashion…

For fur the only way is vintage. I could never ethically purchase a new item which was made of fur… unless it is from widely farmed animals, who are not raised solely for their skins.

Oui, mais la fausse fourrure fait moins de dégâts sur les animaux ! Quand on voit les conditions dans lesquelles ils sont dépecés en Chine par exemple, on ne voit plus les choses de la même manière…

J’adore le coté « tombée du lit » de la tenue de Carine Roitfeld et ce manteau !!!!
Habitant Paris (maximum – 10°, 3 nuits par an) je ne vois pas l’utilité de contribuer à l’élevage et abattage barbare de certains animaux. J’ai une vieille peau lainée de mouton héritée de ma mère qui fait l’affaire les jours froids. Cela dit, si j’habitais au Groenland ou en Sibérie, je ferais comme nos ancêtres, je porterais des peaux de bêtes, c’est certain. Et sinon, la débauche de fourrure durant cette fashion week (défilés ou street style) me donne quand même un peu la nausée.

I view fur in the same way I view the handbags and shoes made out of crocodile skin – any animal bred in captivity in awful conditions solely for its hide is an atrocious act.

Eating meat, like wearing leather, should be done sparingly. It’s not neccessary, it’s not needed. Fur, well I just don’t see the point in it. And I’m not even a vegetarian! I just don’t see it at being chic at all, it’s just needless, and never classy.

each one does what she/he wants as long as within the legal boundary…. please, no lessons from pro to con, or vice-versa….
do what you think is right and leave the others in peace…..

Merci Garance pr cette article!! Et merci à Carine d’avoir porté ce manteau! Et les faux renards Marc Jacobs étaient si drôle aussi!

Pr ma part, j’adore les moumoutes, les fausses fourrures qui s’assume, que je trouve super second degré et chics= perfection. Et concernant la fourrure, il faut faire les choses avec respect (de l’animal, sa douleur, son stress…pas les entasser dans des camions sans eau pdt des heures…) et raison parce que les filles qui s’achètent 2 doudounes à capuches de ratons laveurs/mois, ça me choque!!

En lisant en diagonale les commentaires, je trouve assez juste de dire je porte de la fourrures animal dont je consomme le viande. Ceci dit on peut dériver sur le cuir… oui ou non??? Stella à une position assez trancher mais un canapé en cuir oui ou non? Un autre sujet, au jour d’aujourd’hui on doit faire de l’élevage pour sauver des espèces, les chevaux par ex. ce qui implique la consommation de la viande et l’utilisation du cuir. Bien ou pas?

I think on that pic it is faux fur coat.. because I wore faux fur coats too and many brands use it too. And I undesrtand.. Fur is so nice.. But the other hand.. Like you wrote. Have a nice day.

http://www.fashiondenis.com/

First of all, Garance, thanks for wanting to know our opinions.
As a vegetarian, I only use leather shoes (no leather bags, no leather belts etc) and I like furs so much. I would never say that furs themselves are ugly, because some of them are very cute. And I want to stress « some of them ». Honestly, Marc Jacobs’ fashion show was painful to watch, with all those animals hanging from models’ shoulders.
Said that, I can understand the use of vintage furs, at least they don’t increase the market.
I have some faux furs which are lovely and I read that they are bad for environment because they’re produced with oil. I recently read that it takes 3-4 liters of oil to make one fur. Well, if you think that real furs are good for environment… it’s something totally false!! Few months ago I saw a creepy photo, I was speechless. It showed a mountain of dead animals, without furs obviously, that had to be thrown away. It was a mountain high as a 3-4 floors building. Is that good for environment? I don’t think so.
Then, few days ago, Lav (it’s the italian Peta) divulged the news that some brands (included two among the most famous italian brands of fashion) produced clothes for children with furs containing high quantity of toxic substances (like chromium and lead). They had to retire the clothes from the stores.
Making real furs needs high quantity of toxic substances, it’s not natural at all. And it’s not ethic. Animals do not exist to be cruelty killed for our pleasures!
I understand the need to show fashion shows photos, perfectly. Well, there’s no need to write something like « the furs were amazing, so refined etc etc », like I read on some papers.

Beautifully said!

Personnellement, je n’ai aucune hésitation : ni fourrure, ni cuir, ni aucune matière animale. Une telle position limite les choix ? en effet, sans l’ombre d’un doute, mes prétentions à l’élégance sont entravées et même anéanties car, des matières d’origine animale , il y en a PARTOUT. Je m’habille donc comme je peux mais je me sens à mon aise car en accord avec mes convictions. Pour en revenir à la fourrure, les animaux sont « élevés » dans des conditions ignobles (cages trop petites etc), et tués de manière abjecte (électrocution anale, gazage …il ne faut pas abîmer leur fourrure, n’est-ce pas) ou même écorchés vifs…Les élevages engendrent aussi de sérieux problèmes écologiques (rejets, excréments…) à tel point qu’il n’en existe pratiquement plus en France ou en Allemagne. Des pays moins regardant s’en chargent: Chine, Russie …Quant aux animaux sauvages piégés , ils succombent après une longue agonie. Le cuir, la laine, la viande aussi sont pour moi l’objet du même questionnement éthique. Et là, ni l’industrie de la mode ni toute notre organisation sociale n’en sortent indemnes. Mes excuses pour cette longue intervention…

je profite du sujet pour vous demander (aaarrgghh!) COMMENT FAIT-ON POUR RETIRER CETTE ODEUR DE GRENIER imprégné dans le magnifique col en renard argenté que ma vieille tante vient (enfin!) de me léguer?!
Sinon, oui j’aime la fourrure (raisonnablement) et la fausse fourrure aussi…je suis normande ;-)

Hello Garance!
Avant je trouvais que la fourure n’apportait rien a la mode et qu’on pouvait tres bien s’en passer. Et puis un jour j’ai eu l’occasion de porter une veste en vison vintage et j’ai adore. Je n’ai jamais rien porte d’aussi chaud, doux, agreable, d’une couleur sublime et du coup ca m’a donne envie d’en avoir. Je n’ai pas de probleme avec la fourure tant que c’est issu d’elevage. Je comprends qu’on soit contre mais le discours manque souvent de coherence. Comment etre contre la fourure et porter vestes, chaussures et sacs a main en cuir? Et les vetements fabriques en Chine dans des conditions pas tres humaines? C’est l’etique de toute l’industrie de la mode qui est a questionner.

You are a brave woman Garance. This is a difficult subject. Personally, my feelings about fur have changed thru the years. If I wear fur usually its vintage so I feel better about it. As I write this comment I am struggling…Maybe if there were a more humane way to obtain the fur? If the rest of the animal were being used for food… that might feel better…Most people wear leather and that doesn’t stir up so much controversy…. I think people should have a right to wear fur without fearing they will get attacked or yelled at by a stranger.

MMM… moi j’achète mes fourrures vintage pour me donner bonne conscience (en quelque sorte je ne participe pas à cette consommation et ne pousse pas à un nouvel « abattage », mais je sais que c’est un peu un faux-semblant)…
C’est vrai que pour les neuves, il faudrait avoir une sorte de « traçabilité » que la bête n’a pas été torturée, tout son ensemble utilisé (Et oui je suis carnivore, et le lapin c’est très bon…pourquoi ne pas utiliser sa fourrure?).
Un peu comme la vente de diamants finalement…prouver que ce ne sont pas des diamants de guerre (vaste sujet).
Après pour moi interdire la fourrure en tant que tel…que dire des fermes d’élevage de crocodiles pour faire de jolies sacs Hermès…? on peut aller très loin avec tout ça.
Quant à ce manteau en fausse fourrure, suis pas fan du tout: on dirait le peignoir en pilou pilou de ma grand-mère…

Tout a fait d’accord! :)

Hello Garance!
J’ai un avis assez tranché sur la fourrure dans la mode aujourd’hui, car j’ai déjà vu en vrai la manière dont on maltraite les animaux pour leur arracher la peau (au sens propre du terme), ça dépassait tout ce que j’avais imaginer. Je ne mange pas de viande (je ne suis pas végétarienne, mais je n’aime pas ça tout simplement!), mais je porte des sacs en cuir, je pense que tout dépend du devenir de l’animal. Les boeufs on fait de la viande, des sacs et autres mais tout est utilisé et l’animal est élevé dans un but précis, après aller tuer un animal de manière illégale très souvent pour récupérer sa peau et ne rien faire du reste je trouve ça dommageable. Du coup en y réfléchissant, je n’ai rien contre la fourrure vintage, puisque les époques se suivent mais ne se ressemblent pas, dans les années 60 ça ne dérangeait personne, mais je pense qu’en 2013, c’est trop barbare et le monde l’est déjà suffisamment comme ça…

bonne fashion week Parisienne Garance!!

C’est vrai qu’il est beau son manteau. Je ne l’ai même pas reconnue sur le coup !

http://www.younglington.wordpress.com

Its complicated. I could not go purchase a new fur coat, but I love my Grandma’s and would wear it in a heartbeat. I think vintage furs can really work, and besides what are you going to do with the furs? Give them a proper burial? At least with leather, the animal is already killed for its meat, so using the skin makes absolute sense, but killing JUST for the fur? Not so much. Maybe an avant garde designer will start collecting road kill and utilize the fur that way (gasp)

Si je puis me permettre une autre sorte d’opinion, je dis que la fourrure c’est bien quand elle est nécessaire, c’est à dire quand on vit en Sibérie ou dans le Grand Nord Canadien où les températures négatives peuvent vous tuer. Je comprends qu’on veuille en porter à Montréal ou à New York parce je ne connais rien de tel pour vous protéger du vent (j’ai essayé, je suis née dans le grand nord et ai vécu à Montréal longtemps).
Mais quand je vois du vison à Cannes ou à Monaco ou en même en Bretagne ou à Paris, je trouve superflu donc inutile donc déplacé d’en porter.
Tout est une question de latitude.

I wear fur but only fur hat has already been made. So for instance: somebody gave me her fur coat or my grandmother died and so I got the fur coat. I know they aren’t in style anymore, but I am not willing to buy new fur. So I will only buy vintage or wear the ones I have been getting from other people. In The Netherlands (where I come from) they think very low of people wearing fur and they even hate you if you wear it the way I do. Don’t really get that though, but they think that wearing fur in any case makes you look like a dumb person. But I am not going to burn the coats I already have, why on earth would these creatures have been killed then? I think it’s better to wear it until your coat is done and ready to be thrown away… And let’s be frank, it’s nice and warm because right now I am in Paris and I’d wish I had taken my fur coat with me!
Thank you for making this possible to share, because I have been dying to write about it on my blog for such a long time but I am afraid people really don’t understand my point of view in my country.

XOXO
Nancy

Actually there is one designer here in Montreal who recycles old fur and makes accessories and coats, really great.
Here is the site http://www.harricana.qc.ca/

I’m glad you brought this up! Last christmas whilst visiting my grandparents I found out that about 40 years ago, my grandmother set out with her two daughters (one of them being my mother when she was my age) and bought 3 beautiful fur coats. My aunt still has hers, but as my grandmother and my mother hadn’t worn their coats in 30 years and I was quite enthousiastic about them, I was gifted both. I wear my mothers coat all the time with the cold weather we’re experiencing right now, but my grandmothers coat was damaged by moths. It’s very chique and princess-like and I absolutely love it, but am not sure I should have it repaired. Vintage fur is ok by me, but repairing it would involve using new fur. The coat has been hanging in my room for about two months now and I still don’t know what to do with it. Fur is such a difficult issue!

In the end, I do think more designers and high street stores should follow the example of Stella McCartney. We can look fabulous without harming animals!

Also, I didn’t know anything about faux fur being bad for the environment?

No to fur. I just couldn’t. I’ll move to one side if someone is wearing fur. That said, I do wear leather shoes but fur just seems so much worse. And it’s probably really hypocritical.

I honestly don’t think fashion « need » to have fur. Fake or real. I don’t think we need that for warmth anymore, since we have the best technology to make warm clothes now, without sacrificing poor animals for their skins only, I mean think about it, it is really really cruel! I once had the opportunity to be at Saga mink fur and got to see firsthand everything, and I still don’t approve of it, nor do I think it is a need for us humans. Just because we can do whatever to animals or beings that cannot protect themselves from us, doesn’t make it right. I am not a vegetarian, but I do choose what I eat very carefully trying to do my part a bit. To say that fake fur is worse for the environment , I don’t think most of our clothes are environmentally friendly and most of the things we use aren’t either, so to think that fake is worse than real, even though I think I understand your point, make little sense to me. In that case we should really start thinking about all that we use or do, which in reality what we really should anyway.

I only wear fur from animals we eat, I will never wear furs from animals that are used only for their furs. I only understand vintage fur coats, but I dont wear them.

I don’t know what to think about it either. On the one hand, I am strictly against fur coats, but then my grandmother inherited my mother and me a large fur coat, so the right thing to do would be to … throw it out/give it to charity? But the coat meant so much to my grandmother and she specifically gave it to us (my aunt got an old dior hand bag……..).
We’re not going to wear the coat, it doesn’t fit our style (my mom’s too short for it and I’m only 20). We’re thinking about making pillow cases or ‘shawl’ thingies for a formal event… We’re definitely not going to throw it out, though.

But I think no one can behave perfectly ethical, it’s just not possible. We all make mistakes, but we can all set priorities and live consciously. And no one should try to push their values onto someone else. It’s good to discuss about it and share thoughts and facts, but let’s not judge each other!

Carine looks beautiful, and I’m really happy that you’re using this opportunity to bring up such a serious subject. Hugs! This is why I read you.

Kudos too, to everyone who has commented, and been thoughtful, respectful, and considerate.

Personally, I agree with Varvana. I eat meat, and I wear leather. I also wear fur. I’m concerned about the conditions that exist in factory/industrial farms of ALL kinds. All animals should be respected in life and death, not just those that produce fur. I believe the solution here is to work towards a world where that’s true across the board. Eliminating fur – and leather, and meat, because we have to be consistent, right? – is not the answer. (Having lived through the Canadian winter, I don’t accept the argument that fur is a special case because it’s only for luxury.)

This may mean that some types of furs fall out of use, and we’re limited to rabbits, seals (Skylark makes a good point about these), etc, where no part of the animal is wasted. But I think limiting sourcing is OK, even good. Nobody would wear an endangered animal, after all. (I hope!)

I don’t know too much about the relative environmental impacts, and would be interested to find out more about this. As I understand it (I may be out of date), a lot of fake furs are petroleum products. Another important consideration with respect to environmental impact is how well synthetics hold up, relative to real. I’ve never heard of anyone passing down a vintage synthetic fur coat, and pretty much *everything* we make and cast off winds up in a landfill.

I’m running on here, but I guess a majority would agree that more humane treatment, supporting small producers (as a path to humane treatment), and eliminating waste are all desirable things. So how do we make that happen?

Bravo d’ouvrir la conversation (plutôt que le débat). Pour moi les mots de Tolstoy résonnent comme un motto : « This is dreadful! Not the suffering and death of the animals, but that people suppress in themselves, unnecessarily, the highest spiritual capacity – that of sympathy and pity towards living creatures… » Donc no fur!
Cheers.

>Realy?! Where do you get those information?!

It’s funny, I was just having this conversation with my mom yesterday. And I don’t think there is a need for fur. Killing an animal merely for its fur is wrong, and no one is consuming the meat. They’re just dying for our artificial needs. My mom says it’s a cultural thing, since how can you ask the Russians for example, to stop wearing fur when it is something they have been wearing for hundreds of years–especially because of the weather condition. But I looked into warm materials for coats, and a wool coat seems to be accepted as being the warmest. And the benefit of wool (like Alpaca wool) is that you don’t have to kill the animal, and it can simply be shaved off.

I’m not a vegetarian and I like leather goods, but I think there has to be a balance and an ethic about how we go about living. At least a cow can be eaten. Though I don’t like snake leather, that I think is also just about the skin and I bet no one is eating that, either.

Personnellement je pense que ce manteau est fantastique, mais je voudrais souligner c’est en effet fourrure! C’est sheerling, cependant de la fourrure d’animaux qui se mangent……je l’adore absolutement!!

J’ai un gilet en fourrure de lapin que j’adore, je n’ai pas honte de le dire, ce manteau est vraiment superbe, le nude est tellement une belle couleur!!!
http://la-petite-vie-de-marie.blogspot.fr/

Il me semble que la bonne question à se poser serait celle de l’utilité d’en porter. Si j’habitais le grand nord, l’utilité serait évident et j’en porterais sans hésitation car je suis très frileuse. Dans les pays ayant un climat plus clément, le port de la fourrure sort de ce cadre purement utile. J’en porte quand même mais en petite touche, parce que je suis toujours très frileuse et un col en fourrure est chaud et sensuel! et je ne serais d’accord de porter un manteau par grand froid. Jeune, j’avais un manteau vintage en lapin rose poudré ! pratiquement la même couleur de celui de Carine. Actuellement, j’habite au soleil, donc plus d’utilité sauf lors des voyages!
Bonne journée, bonne continuation, j’adore votre blog Garance.

I think there’s a lot of double standards concerning the fur issue, it’s a complicated thing. I’m with you on the environmental issue. I don’t now how the materials in fake fur affect nature during decomposing. But fur is natural so it doesn’t pollute in the same way that plastic and other artificial materials does, that’s for sure. I feel the same way about fake leather. (Though I’m unsure about the tanning process, I guess it is also quite nasty.) One of the great things about fur is that is often inherited or resold, I can’t see how there should be anything wrong in using a fur coat that is given to you/that you have brought in a second hand store. Quite on the contrary, you show that you respect the environment by using what is already made, instead of contributing to the fast-fashion industry. An argument against fur is that we don’t need it, but we really don’t need meat either to the extent that we consume it in the western world. Like fur is, meat has/is in a lot of cultures a luxury product, something that is not consumed every day. To be respectful to the environment and the animals, we should limit our consumption of meat (every second day, twice a week…), and only buy our meat from farms, and not in a supermarket, where the animals are treated in a respectful manner. It’s the same with fur, the animals should also be treated with respect, not like objects. But they are not. This is my problem with the fur industry. But at least fur is not something you buy each week, it’s an investment piece meant to last and then, hopefully, to be passed on to the next generation. If we were better at treating the animals well and using them up from heat to toe (it’s stupid to slaughter a cow, throw the skin away, then slaughter a fox, just to throw that meat away), the fur industry would be that bad.

Dear Garance, finally you’ve raised the question!
I totally agree it is complicated – though I am not vegetarian, I do hope things get reasonable when people decide they will go with « fur » fashion. There are people who wear fur/fake fur just to compete for attention – well, I’d say style is all about yourself, not necessarily what you wear, but more how you wear it.

The fur topic is quite delicate. The thing is, if you give up fur you would be expected to give up leather, crocodile skin and a series of products derived from animals. Leather is more accepted due to the fact that you actually feed on the cow, and get a lot of skin out of one animal; whereas mink, and foxes are only killed for their skin, and you need to sacrifice many just to make one garment. I love animals, all of them, so for me this is a tough issue. It all becomes complicated because you say, « wearing fur is cruel » you give it up, then they tell you cows, chickens etc, suffer so you can eat them and make diary products. Then, you have to eat certain types of vegetables because others have pesticides bad for the environment. So, in the end I think it is impossible to be 100% ecological. Not even Stella McCartney. Still, we could do a lot better. If every person gave up meat for one day a week it would help the planet greatly. I have some amazing furs that belonged to my grandma, I don’t wear them because I don’t want to be seen as a fur promoter. I think designers should work harder at being ecological, Stella M is the living proof it’s possible. And we should contribute as well

love the fur!! Amazing outfit! xo

Emma <3
buy designer eyeglasses | Celebrity Style at the 2013 Oscars

Animals are intelligent creatures that deserve LIFE. They feel and suffer and experience joy as much as we, humans do. They should not live in terrible conditions just to sattisfy our VAIN. They deserve compassion and their own skins for their own life :-)

I love the look of fur, but please let it be faux! It’s one thing for us to voluntarily suffer in heels, it’s quite another to force cruelty onto another living being in the name of beauty. I’m currently working on phasing all animal products (leather included) out of my closet, since 2 years ago I went vegan and this is my last crusade :)

encanta el color nude tan hermoso! es como llevar UGG aunque :) xo

Emma <3
My Face Hunter

No comments ref Fourrures ou pas fourrures… Carine a changé d allurre !

As someone who is always cold, it’s the practicality of fur that I really appreciate. No down, cloth or leather coat keeps me as warm and comfortable as fur when the temperature is low. Personally, I find it beautiful and very sensuous: I understand that others don’t. All my furs are vintage and cheap – rabbit, which is also a meat. Interesting debate: I hope it stays respectful! x

Buy vintage fur. Reuse and don’t promote the additional killing of animals.

Tu nous consultes sur la fourrure : je dis oui. Pourquoi pas, c’est doux, c’est chaud. On se couvre avec de la fourrure quand il fait froid depuis des millénaires non ?
Tu ne nous consultes pas sur Carine Roitfeld (tant pis !) : mais là je dis non. Bien sur, je ne suis pas une spécialiste de la mode… mais non. Son allure est franchement moche ! Comme je l’ai lu plus haut, sur quelqu’un d’autre, en d’autres lieux, tout le monde trouverait ça hideux… Enfin, je crois.

I think if it were possible to be sure the fur was humanely processed, it would be different. Personally, I would only wear vintage pieces, because the method of killing the animals is quite brutal (some are, frankly, skinned while alive).
Faux fur is great, and vintage is great. It does seem silly that people are vehemently anti-fur, yet many of them happily wear leather. Ideally, fur would be just as ethically sourced, and we could wear both without guilt.
Maybe the solution is that all high-fashion fur should be sourced from cattle! (ha ha…)

I grew up in Los Angeles and was of course very against the wearing of fur which seemed entirely impractical for the climate and only worn to appear fashionable. When I moved to New York where the winters are a bit colder, I witnessed my apartment mate running outside for quick errands in her grandmother’s long fur wearing just a long sleeved t and jeans beneath. Meanwhile, I was bundling up in multiple layers beneath a wool coat to be warm. I borrowed her coat once and realized that fur is far warmer and more comfortable given freezing weather. So, my feelings changed a bit. I am now ok with people wearing fur when the climate is appropriate. It does serve a legitimate function in my mind. However, nobody in Dallas, Los Angeles or any moderate climate really should have a fur wardrobe. Even people in colder climates really should think before they purchase and get something that will be used for years, does not involve further endangering a species, and hopefully takes into consideration that animal lives are lost over fur and some types may be farmed better than others.

What I hate to see: 1. animal tails on purses as a « charm » (not charming at all to me!) 2. fur trim on a denim jacket 3. fur handbags 4. Fur on people walking around in Beverly Hills when it is 55 degrees. 5. Trendy fur coats and jackets What I like to see: practical, classically styled fur on people in freezing weather. Especially when that person is at least 70 and also wearing a fur hat because it is 10 degrees and she is still out running her errands.

I say to each his or her own. I don’t try to tell others what to wear or do.

http://www.FashionSnag.com

How is the « fur discussion » different than the « leather discussion »? Leather skirt, leather cap, leather trousers… Not really essential for survival…

Enfin ! Enfin on parle de la fourrure… Je commençais à me demander si ça te posait le moindre problème ou pas…
Je suis végétarienne, donc n’en porte pas (et je trouve ça globalement hideux et connoté). Et j’ai du mal à comprendre qu’on puisse encore tuer pour se vêtir.
Je lis des commentaires qui pourraient se résumer ainsi : « les végétariens qui portent de la fourrure et du cuir sont méprisables et débilement incohérents ». Ok pour la fourrure. J’invite néanmoins ces personnes à essayer de trouver des chaussures potables en faux cuir (sur le marché français en tout cas c’est extrêmement difficile, à part si l’on passe sa vie en baskets…).
En tout cas, merci d’avoir ouvert le débat, c’est triste de voir que parfois le monde de la mode semble ne pas avoir la moindre notion de « valeur » (autre que monétaire j’entends).

Bonjour Garance
Je pense qu’il y a vraiment un problème de sensibilisation par rapport à la fourrure et que la plupart des gens aujourd’hui ne se rendent pas compte de ce que les animaux subissent pour un simple petit col tellement c’est devenu banal. Si chaque personne devait regarder dans quelles conditions l’animal qui a servi à faire leur manteau a été tué et dépecé je pense que très rare seront les personnes à l’acheter par la suite.
Malheureusement la plupart des gens préfèrent aussi ne pas savoir et privilégier leur apparence à l’extrême souffrance qu’a pu ressentir un animal. Mais il est vrai que cette hypocrisie ne concerne pas que la fourrure: acheter des vêtements ou jouets provenant de Chine alors que l’on peut facilement imaginer les conditions d’exploitation des salariés revient au même.

I love your blog, Garance !!! thank you for being brave to bring up the issue of fur. I live in Oregon and my eyes have been opened to the truth about fur when my neighbor came across a coyote that was caught in a steel leg-hold trap. It was a heartbreaking experience and opened my eyes to the issue of trapping animals for fur. The trapper who had trapped the coyote was trying to trap bobcats and minks; he had already trapped 14 bobcats in the canyon next to my house. I was shocked to find out this was going on and how many of our wild animals were being taken and their populations in danger – all for the sake of the fur industry.
The main traps used are steel leg hold traps and snares, which both cause unimaginable suffering for the animals- with no consideration for what their death leaves in store for their mate or offspring. Animals suffer for days before the trapper finally comes and shoots them or clubs them to death. Clubbing is preferred because it leaves the coat in better condition. Many dogs get caught and killed in traps and last year one of the last three wolverines left in Oregon was caught in a trap.
I do not agree with attacking someone for wearing fur. I feel that the more we learn about what really goes on in the trapping industry and in fur farms, fewer people would wear furs. Many believe that all furs come from farms but a large percentage comes from trapping and skinning our precious wild animals.

I inherited a fur from my grandmother and occasionally wore it when I lived in NYC but after moving to the Pacific Northwest and learning about animal trapping, I donated it to our animal shelter where it is used to comfort homeless cats.

I love creative style but let us hold dear the lives of all species.

To take an animal life just for vanity today when we have all those sophisticated ways to create much better materials for me is just pure ignorance, cruelty and in most cases neglect for suffering of other beings. Anyway for me every time I see that someone wears fur first thing that comes to my mind is how that person must be shallow and heartless. And this fur on your picture is just wrong and I wonder how many life is taken so that this fashion mistake could go around and flaunt it.

Je ne suis pas contre la vraie… Mais personnellement je ne pourrais pas porter tout type de fourrure. J’ai un peu la phobie des rongeurs (souris/rats, …) et je ne pourrais pas porter de l’hermine, fouine, vison…donc pas un animal qui me dégoute! Sinon, je serais pour une charte éthique pour les marques pour protéger l’environnement, éviter toute barbarie, conditions de travail ignoble, etc.

Difficile de prendre position quand on mange de la viande.
Tout dépend des conditions dans lesquelles arrivent ces fourrures sur le marché de la mode..

Ce manteau ne sied pas du tout à Mme Roitfeld : on a l’impression qu’elle porte une robe de chambre…

N’en déplaise aux personnes qui se pâment parce que c’est Carine Roitfeld…;) restons lucides !

I have no problem with vintage fur, because those animals are already dead and gone, and by purchasing or owning a vintage fur coat you are not fueling the demand for any more animals to be killed for their pelts.

BUT what is the problem with rabbit fur? In New Zealand (where I live) rabbits are a pest and they damage farmland as well as the native ecosystems here. This is the same for possum fur. Possums ruin our native trees and kill rare birds. They are killed by our Department of Conservation because they will drive our unique plants and wildlife to extinction. In my mind the fur from rabbits or possums can be distinguished from fur from a fox or another animal.

I think that it is barbaric to kill an animal for no reason other than because its pelt will look nice made into a coat. But to my mind we can have both animal welfare and fur co-existing. In fact, if a rabbit has to die because someone wants to trap it to keep it from ruining their land or to protect the environment then it is less wasteful if the fur is used in a productive way.

I hope that I am not upsetting anyone with this comment. I just think that we can have a compromise, although this may be easier to achieve in a country like NZ where we have the conservation issues I mentioned.

I think with all the fur out there now days its much chicer to wear a beatufiul tailored coat. Also, when done right a faux fur coat can be a fun alternative. Not that I am going all PETA but when ever I see a women wearing fur all over its just seems like overkill and ostentasious.

Je suis contre la fourrure, je ne mange plus du tout de viande depuis 15 ans et j’essaie de ne plus manger de poisson …. par principe, par idéologies et j’ai beaucoup apprécié l’interview de Stella Mc Cartney surtout quand elle évoque ce sujet ! (avec douceur !)
Je travaille dans une maison d’édition publicitaire et je participe à l’élaboration des catalogues de mode pour le prêt à porter et haute couture, sans citer les maisons concernées, je dois dire que je suis choquée de recevoir des peaux d’animaux (pythons, zibeline, vison, galuchat, lapin etc…) entières et destinées à finir coupées et collées en petits carrés pour les catalogues ! Certes c’est magnifique mais je préfère de loin les voir sur des animaux vivants !
Je sais bien que c’est vain de dire cela mais on pourrait sensibiliser les gens sur l’élevage de ces animaux qui est tout simplement horrible, et se pencher aussi sur les abattoirs (vu l’actualité !!!)
Ne pas oublier que l’on vit sur une planète déjà malmenée et que le respect du monde animal est tout simplement nécessaire ! Alors vive la fausse fourrure !

Une grande question dis donc…. pas seulement la fourrure selon moi, mais comment on consomme cohérent et respectueux !
moi je suis végétarienne (surtout pour des causes écologiques), mais je mange d’autres produits issus d’animaux ( du fromage donc) pour lesquels on force des vaches à produire 10 litres par jour et qui ont alors des problèmes de santé. j’ai des chaussures en cuir, mais mes baskets en plastique (peut-être cousues par des enfants et dont la semelle est issue de la pétrochimie) sont-elles plus éthiques ?
et le diamant (petit ;) qui trône à mon doigt de femme mariée, il est moins pire que mon col en fourrure ? le diamant (avec l’or et l’argent qu’on trouve dans des composants des objets électroniques, dans les avions, et le nickel de nos iphones) est un produit dont l’extraction crée une instabilité géopolitique grave et qui tue des milliers de personne (pas un « cute » chihuahua mais un enfant, une femme, un homme).
l’argument contre la fourrure du mignon animal qu’on tue, je trouve ça horrible. parce que les moches n’ont pas le droit de vivre ?
ce qui au final me semble important (parce que moi je suis pleine contradiction….) c’est une législation pointue et qui tente de réconcilier les inconciliables : oui au diamant, mais peut-être que van cleefs pourrait être sûr d’acheter à des producteurs sérieux et pas à des seigneurs de guerre, oui à la fourrure à petite dose et qui assurerait des conditions décentes de vie et de mort des animaux, oui à la viande de temps en temps parce que c’est bon et qu’on est omnivore, oui à la protection de TOUS les animaux (et pas seulement les mignons) ce qui ne veut pas dire qu’on ne peut pas les manger, s’en vêtir- selon moi…. mais avec des règles strictes, très strictes- et donc qui vont augmenter les tarifs….
éternels contradictions, éternels problèmes. Consommer c’est compliqué ! et ceux qui sont sûrs d’eux me semblent quelque peu dangereux….

Thank you Garance for bringing this subject up! I believe it’s an important conversation for us all to have. I have a beautiful vintage rabbit fur coat my mother used to wear when I was a young girl in the 80s – I brought it out of her storage locker in case it got cold enough to wear this winter (which it didn’t here in Vancouver). But I do have mixed feelings about wearing it. I don’t want to be misunderstood as supporting fur fashion – because I don’t. But I also don’t see the point of letting it rotting in a storage locker. I am a big fan of fashion and think that fur has had its place, and now there are alternatives. Certainly at one point in our history fur was used in fashion out of necessity (warmth in northern climates, lack of other materials). But my eyes have been opened to modern fur harvesting and it is too brutal a practice to ignore or support. I am like you in that I’m not a vegetarian – but I am against brutality against any living beings. Ignorance is not bliss in this case. Now that we know better, we must do better.
For anyone wanting to shed some light on fur production, here is a film for you to watch: http://earthlings.com/?page_id=32

My rule of thumb is to wear vintage fur, there are a lot of great brands out there that work with vintage furs to create something new. Last season I bought these gorgeous fox-fur earmuffs from a Quebec based brand Harricana (http://www.harricana.qc.ca/), they are eco-friendly and haven’t killed any animals to create their products! Although I do a agree with some of the girls points, there are so many techniques designers can use as an alternative to keeping fur off the runway (and you have to admire designers like Stella McCartney who have the moral to keep fur out of their designs). xx!

Wow, so many comments. Glad to see that you have dared to at least ask this question, Garance.

It is only in the discussion of killing animals that we see how shaky the foundations of morality are. For me, animal cruelty/animal ethics are subjective and vary from culture to culture. In my opinion, using « animal cruelty » as an argument against fur is a poor argument. What then would we say of leather and eating animals? Why is killing a cow for leather more cruel than eating a fish or dog? They’re all animals. If killing animals at all is cruel (even for consumption), what of plants? They have lives too.

And the argument goes on and on.

Not to forget that the fact that we are able to discuss this on the Internet shows how privileged we are to live in a progressive society with different alternatives. There was a comment above by ‘skylark’ about the sealskin industry in Greenland – killing animals ensures their economic survival.

For me, the problem lies in environmental concerns – direct scientific effects traceable by scientific research. Killing endangered animals is wrong because that affects the balance of nature, which will ultimately affect us.

Bonjour !
J’ai commencé à lire tous ces commentaires fort intéressants mais il y en a vraiment beaucoup, j’espère quand même apporter des idées neuves ^^
Pour ma part, j’ai une veste en cuir que j’aime beaucoup mais ai décidé que ce serait mon dernier achat dans le style « partie de cadavre animal ». Depuis un peu moins d’un an j’essaie de faire de mon mieux pour consommer de manière éthique en tenant compte des intérêts des autres animaux auxquels j’ai en fait toujours accordé la même valeur qu’aux miens (sauf bien sûr si ma vie en dépendait, mais c’est un autre débat, on est peut-être aussi tous cannibales potentiels…).
En croyant que l’exploitation animale pour nous nourrir était nécessaire, normale et naturelle, je n’avais jamais vraiment remis en question ce système (jusqu’à lire un article, puis des livres et tout ce que je pouvais trouver de fiable). L’élevage industriel en particulier soulève, en plus des enjeux moraux, des problèmes sanitaires (la proximité des animaux facilitant la transmission des maladies et l’abus d’antibiotiques entraînant la résistance des bactéries dont les infections qu’elles causent deviennent donc plus dur à soigner) et environnementaux (accélération des changements climatiques entre autres). Concernant la fourrure et le cuir, il me semble que l’injustice du traitement (proportion des souffrances par rapport à l’utilité procurée pour nous, si l’on convient que certains sacrifices sont acceptables même si injuste (c’est mon cas, mais seulement par rapport à certaines situations où le progrès scientifique est en question par exemple)) est encore plus flagrante, mais il est assurément facile de fermer les yeux et d’apprécier avant d’avoir pris le temps d’y réfléchir.
Changer mes habitudes s’est avéré être le bon comportement à adopter pour éviter la dissonance cognitive ; il m’arrive parfois de faire des exceptions, j’essaie alors de comprendre pourquoi, sans culpabiliser et en sachant ce qui est bien au fond, comme quand on regarde trois épisodes d’une série au lieu de travailler par exemple ;)
Malheureusement, je comprends que ce ne soit pas donné à tout le monde de vivre ainsi ; on ne peut pas subsister de façon autonome dans certains pays au climat contraignant autrement qu’avec l’élevage…

Bonne réflexion personnelle (et recherches) :)

P.S. : Bravo et merci si tu lis tous les commentaires, tôt ou tard !

*The kind of thoughts I have: Yes, but I am not a vegetarian, yes but I’ve heard fake fur is worse for the environment than real fur, yes but how do you cover fashion week without talking about it, etc…

I try to do better — better than I did last week, last month, last time. I try to not make choices. purchase or promote in any way something I have learned from credible sources that might be the result of or cause suffering to an animal. I came to a point where that was more important to me than potential environmental impacts. There are terrible environmental consequences of human population growth, but we save people and heal people because we can and we do not want to cause harm or pain. That’s my thinking.

By trying to do better, over the years I have chosen to eat fish (now preferring the safest and most sustainable according to the monterey bay aquarium guide, now an app), but no longer the beef or pork on which I grew up. I eat poultry when it is certified organic, humane and preferably form one of the farming families at my local market. I saw a documentary on pate and it seems barbaric to me so I won;t touch it. I don’t pontificate to someone else eating it, or picket a restaurant, but I would comfortably tell anyone why I won’t touch it.

I no longer wear fur because it makes me very sad. I stopped using products tested on animals about 10 years ago. You can only do as much as you can do and make choices that you feel good about in the most educated way you are able.

Carine made a deliberate conscious choice, and you amplified that. You have tremendous influence in fashion and related industries. You are an opinion leader. And you just added a very influential voice to public opinion on this. Impressively, you did it in a positive way, without tearing down or insulting, but, rather, highlighting a positive. And you also solicited opinions and facts and placed the conversation somewhere others might also benefit. And you just moved this ball down the court in public, and also for your own decision making. Bravo!

Je pense que la fourrure n’a rien de pire que le cuir, quand on connait l’origine de sa fourrure j’entends bien! Surtout les fourrures (et c’est vrai pour les cuirs exotiques aussi) rares, mais qui sont aujourd’hui élevé dans des fermes prévu à cet usage. Par exemple, le Gucci Group a réussi à sauver une espèce de croco en disparition en l’introduisant dans ses élevages (en milieu naturel). Il est important de discerner production de masse et luxe dans ce débat je pense….

I would be interested in seeing the poll results on this.
See my problem is this – my cat, Mortimer, has the shiniest and softest black fur with a touch of tabby running through it depending on the light…I can’t decide whether or not to make him into a little collar or not. Am I bad??

Bonjour, j’ai lu aussi beaucoup de commentaires, et je me suis dit que avant de dire « c’est bien » ou « c’est mal » faut peut être savoir de quoi on parle :
La fourrure c’est un marché de 15 milliards de dollar , donc c’est loin d’être peanuts et pas consommé, d’ailleurs les marchés ne sont plus concentrées sur l’Europe (en crise) mais bien sur sur l’Asie http://www.furcommission.com/global-fur-trade-now-worth-15-billion/
Et quand à la notion « d’industrie  » (et donc de rythme de production plus proche de mac do que d’artisanat) à, 80 % des fermes d’élevage sont européennes / Amériques du nord et familiales et donc suivent les régulations extrêmement fermes aussi bien au niveau de la souffrance animale, des régulations vétérinaires que du volume possible.http://www.wearefur.com/our-trade/economics-policy
Bizarrement (^^) la seule région qui se met à produire en masse et sans aucune contrainte est …. l’Asie (et notamment la Chine).
Donc c’est comme toute la mode, regardez vos étiquettes avant d’acheter et si , une fourrure synthétique vous tente plus, sachez qu’elles sont en énorme majorité fabriquées en Asie (Inde et Chine) avec tout le je m’enfoutoussime de conditions sociales / environnemental que l’on connait….
Personnellement j’ai une fourrure, qui appartenait à ma grand mère (et comme disait une jeune femme plus haut, la bête est morte et ma grand mère aussi) et je l’ai fait mettre au gout du jour par un petit atelier dans mon quartier, par un vieux monsieur qui était super triste de se dire que les techniques artisanales transmises depuis des générations allaient mourir avec lui…
Quand au reste de ma garde robe, je regarde toutes les étiquettes en privilégiant ce qui a été fabriqué en Europe, et je vais de plus en plus dans les boutiques de seconde main, mais ça c’est un autre débat.
Et pour finir, la tenue de CR, heureusement que c’est elle qui le porte, moi j’aurais juste l’impression de sortir avec ma robe de chambre !!!

Le mieux c’est les manteaux en fourrure d’animaux imaginaires http://fr.fashionmag.com/news-313407-WWF-France-lance-la-ligne-Wonder-World-Fur-issue-d-animaux-imaginaires#.US4IxRkR5XZ ;-)

I am a vegetarian (and was a long time vegan) so i’m in the minority here, but i do have to respond to people saying, essentially, ‘Are YOU going to change the ways and the reasons animals are killed?’ because, yes…yeah, that’s the goal.

However, for some people it’s easy to cry about the terrible business of slaughtering foxes for fur while still eating chicken salad sandwiches – because fashion is frivolous and food is…not. For me personally, giving up leather was MUCH harder than giving up eggs – i love shoes! And i don’t want to wear espadrilles or Converse every day of my life. But those things are a choice. It doesn’t help your argument when you say something like, ‘Oh fur is so bad?? What about hamburgers??’ or, ‘Synthetic fabrics are bad for the environment TOO!’ Because NOBODY IS PERFECT. Nobody can stay 100% within the bounds of their stringent personal morality and also live in the world, on the city streets, among people. Concessions are made. But people who are conscious of the harm their choices cause end up making conscious choices. Nothing bothers me more than an attitude like, Well you can’t be perfect so forget it!

I choose to forgo leather, fur, and animal products in my food. Some people choose the latter. Some people just swear off leather and fur but can’t give up sushi, and some people just hate fur. And then of course, some people see why it’s problematic, but choose their personal style over everything else (which is of course a valid choice.)

Whatever you choose, it’s an important conversation to have, (and I think Garance a million times for having it!) but flippant remarks about someone’s lifestyle choices BEYOND the conversation at hand are petty and ridiculous.

Hi Katie,

While I agree that many furs are prepared with chemicals, any fur can be prepared with nothing more than the animals own fatty tissue and smoke. This method of tanning produces a much softer, supple texture, preserves the hide and is 100% biodegradeable.

quel débat, j’avoue ne pas trop comprendre mais faudrait que je vois comment cela se passe.

I say Live and let Live. Wear Fur if you love it, if you don’t get over it!

Some time ago I purchased a white Marilyn Monroe type fur coat for 70 Euros from somebody who was in so much disgust of it. She inherited it from her granny who had bought it new in the 70s. I do not understand her reaction, the coat was perfectly in shape, just a little stiff because it hadn’t been worn for some time. I call it a fortune that I took that coat to me. Sure it would have been ruined when it had been longer hidden in that back closet.
Before I did big research and found out that 6 winter foxes gave their skin for it. I do not recommend, even now, no matter how certified, to buy fur of seldom free living animals. But if you find an old one, than wear the heck out of it. Until it falls apart so it is not wasted. I have the same feeling with meat: Quality above quantity, source out where it comes from, use the whole animal.
There is a lot of shit cruel fur like from china, people, please don’t produce sth out of that and just don’t wear that. But also there are a lot of furs which come from shooting overpopulated animals like rabbit, racoon and squirrel.
Also it holds me warm like nothing else in my closet! Hey, just fucking 70 bucks! I have really less money and layering just doesn’t do it. I simply just can’t get myself buying an ugly synthetic jack wolfskin jacket like so many other Germans here. I hate plastic. It is everywhere and we can’t get around it anymore but it doesn’t need to be on my skin. Do fur hating people know what cruel damage plastic causes to the earth? Consider that!

What a wonderful debate! And how varied and intelligent the responses! I personally find the fur thing difficult because unlike meat and fish, you can’t really know how your fur has been obtained. Though I feel that the argument for vintage fur more persuasive, one can’t ignore the fact that some of those skins could have been illegally obtained, and could even be from animals that are now close to being extinct in the wild as a result, amongst many things, of hunting. I saw a beautiful vintage cheetah coat and matching hat in an antique store once, I wanted to buy it sort of out of guilt for the dead animal, but I knew I would never ever wear it because it would feel like I was being very vain to think this majestic creature is better as a coat than alive and breeding. I agree with many other people that those animals which are regularly slaughtered for meat should certainly be used efficiently. My view is if I don’t eat it, I wouldn’t wear it, and if an animal’s existence in the wild is in any way threatened then I wouldn’t even wear its fur if it the garment were 100 years old, because I would feel ashamed about the devastating impact that our human dominance can have. I think it is extremely important for everyone to decide what is important to them, and put their money where their mouth is when they shop.

Beaucoup de mes pensées ont été exprimées déjà, mais j’aimerais tout de même ajouter un aspect à la discussion. Plusieurs ont déjà mentionné que notre attitude vis-à-vis la fourrure reflète nos habitudes de consommation, et je suis bien d’accord : le débat que la fourrure suscite n’est qu’une facette d’un problème plus large, celui de notre consommation rapide et notre gaspillage.
Le débat génère aussi des questions quant aux options offertes sur le marché contre lesquelles presque personne ne s’insurge. La fourrure demeure un luxe, comme très peu de gens peuvent s’en offrir régulièrement, mais comme c’est un luxe très visible, il attire toute l’attention. Beaucoup parlent de remplacer cuirs et fourrures par des matériaux synthétiques, mais très peu semblent considérer que ces matériaux synthétiques sont presque tous faits à base de pétrole. D’après moi, délaisser le cuir et la fourrure pour s’habiller de plastique ne fait que déplacer le problème, que ce soit de façon éthique ou environnementale (oui, je sais que le débat quant à la cruauté contre les animaux est décalé quand on parle de pétrole et plastique, mais il me semble hypocrite de considérer l’un en pardonnant l’autre).

Le PVC, le polyester et l’acrylique sont tous extrêmement polluants et peu durables. Je trouve hypocrite d’être fortement contre l’utilisation de la fourrure et du cuir, mais d’encourager leur substitution par ces matériaux; le marché de la mode devrait réviser ses pratiques, mais aussi offrir davantage d’options quant aux matériaux. Aussi, le côté pratique des vêtements devrait avoir plus de poids: la fourrure a une fonction dans les régions nordiques qui demeure encore inégalée par les autres matériaux, et le cuir demeure toujours le matériau le plus durable et confortable pour les chaussures de base. Parcontre, les chaussures estivales pourraient bénéficier de plus de bois, jute ou raffia, et la toile cirée pourrait faire davantage office de cuir quant à nos sacs et manteaux, et peut-être même chaussures.

En bref, il n’est pas question que de fourrure, mais d’une industrie entière qui devrait se renouveler et expérimenter davantage.

Garance, cela fait longtemps que je vous lis avec plaisir et je me lance a commenter car il me semble que cet article me concerne etant une des releve de l artisanat fourreur a Paris.

La fourrure est une matiere naturelle, il ne faut pas avoir de prejuges dessus car nous l’utilisons pour nous vetir depuis l’evolution de l’homme (oui car les australopitheques en avaient une naturelle, eux!) Bref, tout cela pour dire que les manteaux en poils sont biodegradables pour preuve les collections ‘organic’ de plus en plus nombreuses confectionnees avec du cuir aui rappelons le est une fourrure a laquelle on a enleve les poils.

Pour plus de details, je vous invite a visiter notre blog, a nous les vrais artisans du metier, blog tenu pour reponre aux perpetuelles attaques des anti fourrure qui sont, nous le savons tous, extremement virulents (et stupides) (il est en effet tellement facile d’etre contre la fourrure quand on ne cherche pas a en savoir davantage!) http://furinsider.blogspot.fr/

P.S: aucun animal n’est tue dans la douleur, chaque bete ayant une cage pour elle meme, etant parfaitement bien nourrie, suivie et soignee, qualite du poil oblige. Merci !

Chez moi en Finlande il y a beaucoup de débat sur l’élevage et l’industrie de fourrure. Beaucoup trouve cette industrie atroce, mais en même temps, beaucoup de gens vivent de cela. Pour moi le plus grande problème en est que même si chaque animal a son cage à lui, comme vous le dites, ces cages sont très petits pour un animal comme le renard qui devrait, dans son milieu naturel, vivre sur un territoire de plusieurs kilomètres carrés.

je n’ai pas (autant) de problèmes avec les animaux chassés pour leur peaux, mais je pense que la chasse ne pourrait jamais fournir autant de fourrures que l’élevage.

I don’t think the wearing of real fur is ever cool. If you do some research on how the animals are farmed and then killed for their fur, and then you can still wear it – well theres not much more one can say.

One can argue that there is a difference between wearing fur and wearing leather/eating meat. The animals used for fur are usually skinned just for that and the rest of the animal disposed while animals used for leather and meat are fully used for leather, meat, gelatin, etc. This is not the case always, but in most cases. This is not what I believe but it is an argument. I myself chose to go vegan many many years ago.

What I say to people who say fur is fine is the same thing I say to those who eat meat (and that includes chicken and fish btw) and wear leather. If you can watch an animal get killed for that purpose and still feel fine about using or eating the product, ok, go for it. But most people would have a different mindset if they saw how these animals get treated and killed. It is horrible, especially with fur.

Vintage fur is sort of a mute point in this argument no?

As for the arguments from people who make money from fur that fur is a way for people to make a living, that it has always been part of man and evolution, that the animals are treated humanely. Please. These comments are from people who make money from fur! Of course they will say something like that. These are stock answers for such companies.

And finally, fur, fake or real, makes everyone look cheap. Even Carine.

maybe we can adopt an animal welfare standard for fur as we have at Whole Foods for meat =P Placed right underneath the brand label – Orange Step 1 for organic free range listened to jazz and massaged daily – Green Step 5+ for entire life in cage, fed on dead designers and failed collections *insert dramatic music*

Controversial as this may be, i say with no hésitation whatsoever, I love fur..the Real kind…AND I bought mine new: vison(mink), renard(fox) and raccoon. For me, it’s a question of practicality. I hate the cold and nothing keeps me as warm(as I commented on your article about what best to wear in the cold). I could buy fur either new or vintage just that I haven’t gone looking at vintage stores.
I can watch PETA films and still wear my fur and think of the next coat I would like to acquire: a sheared mink or an astrakan or anything I can afford from FENDI!
While you are in Paris where I live(it’s not Siberia but any winter is already too cold for my liking), I’m currently in Manhattan and getting lotsa compliments on my mink coat(américains are a lot more effusive than the french) much to my surprise. Only once I had a woman say to me as I walked by « you wear death ». But you know what? I don’t care.. I’m warm and cosy more than I can ever be in my down jackets or wool coats and that’s all that matters to me!

Garance, this is a question you have to answer from your heart as well as your mind, and by yourself, for yourself; no amount of asking for other’s opinions will help you make up your mind. Everyone has their own reasons for how they deal with fur, leather, etc. It takes a lot of time and thought, and educating yourself on the subject. I wrote a comment to you a few months ago about this and suggested you might start with speaking to Stella McCartney because she is a designer who grew up a vegetarian and has a unique perspective on this and whom you may find comfortable talking to. I would assume she would be very willing to speak with you about it.

There are many things we have to make a choice to do or not do. In the fashion world there is fur, leather, snakeskin, crocodile, etc. etc. It always involves the death of an animal, bird etc. and it always becomes a moral choice. As far as fake (faux) fur, there are many many stories that have surfaced in the past few years about what it is really made up of and it has been proven that dog and cat hair is found in a lot of ‘fake’ fur clothes, trims, children’s’ toys and stuffies etc. There are also instructions given on how to tell if it if fake or real fur. Watch some videos online from various sources to see what happens on animal farms where they are bred for their skins, or when they are trapped in the wild, or where they are skinned alive. There are hundreds+ of these videos, or if that is something you can’t stomach, read some books on the subject. Wander through some department stores at the end of the winter season and check out the fur department. There are hundreds of furs that are hanging there, on sale, some ridiculously ugly coats, jackets, vests, scarves etc. dyed pink or blue or green and think seriously about where they came from and what the animal’s life was taken for. So, in the end, you have to educate yourself and then you can make your decision accordingly and in good conscience.

Garance, major kudos to you for bringing up this subject and for reading all the comments!

Thanks Katie for such a smart comment!
I won’t quote it but I totally agree.

I’m actually surprised about what I read. I’m a vegetarian myself for 5 years but when I wasn’t yet, the idea of fur was unbearable to me, as foie-gras was because it’s not only about death, it’s about torture.
And I understand a lot more that quitting meat could be an issue because it’s something very social, it’s about the food you share…
But who in US/Europe NEED fur? It’s just such an unconscious whim…

I love love love your sketches – best medium for fashion, photos are best for catalogs, reality tv.

I agree with you about how faux-fur is un-environmental. Thanks Garance for bringing this subject!!! seriously Garance thank you, cos I just watched a video on official peta youtube page, the one presented by Olivia Munn (you can search it on google « Olivia Munn Exposes Never-Before-Seen Footage on Chinese Fur Farms ») and goodness, I’m not vegeterian, but I’ll never let fur enter in my house because it seems to me that it is an uncontrolled cruel activity! poor animals……

It’s all about the cruelty and how we make some animals become extinct and have miserable lives…..

As a vegetarian I try to think from the side of animal use and respect. I do not eat meat; however, I do wear leather. I try to wear as much vintage leather as possible in order to recycle as much as possible. I do not wear vintage fur, but that is just my personal preference. The thing with leather is it comes mostly from animals that are used for other things; the animals do not go to waste. Every part of the animal is used for something and therefore leather is part of that too. I understand that leather is still an amazing material, has many uses and has it’s place and cause rather than synthetic fabrics. From an economical standpoint I can see the good in this (although many Vegans will mightily disagree).

Fur on the other hand is cultivated purely for fashion. The express purpose of these animals being farmed, most often in more horrific conditions than battery or super-farmed livestock, is for people to wear. These are not domesticated animals which also have other uses, I am not an expert but believe much of the leftover animal used simply for fur goes to waste.

I own vintage leather and suede and if I do buy new leather it is only for shoes or boots as they last me years and as yet I have not found a material that is as sturdy or lasts as long. Should new fabrics of this nature come along, I would be the first to endeavor to make the change. As for fur, I own vintage faux fur. I also would not buy real fur, vintage or otherwise, but again, this is my personal preference. I do not see wearing faux fur as being connected to wearing an animal. I think modern day style and prints and fabrics have moved away from skins and pelts to being a homage to wildlife of sorts. It nods its head to days gone by and the glamour of those days but now has a strong, modern look towards adaptability, freedom and growth within the fashion industry.

I think animal care is changing in every department be it the food chain, health, economy and fashion. Look at the horse meat scandal or organic vs battery farmed. People are beginning to question not only where our food is coming from but how the animals are treated before and after death; how animals are used within the various industries and where the human/animal respect line lies. Like anything else, it just takes time.

I agree, thank you for the thoughtful post. I recently purchased a maroon fur boa at a resale shop and have been feeling guilty for it. I wore it once and felt uncomfortable. I also have Grandma’s fur collars that I have carried around for years, but never wore. Although fur has been a way to keep warm for centuries, it is not done the same way. We are not eating the racoon we are also wearing.

I am passionate about the continued slaughtering of elephants for their ivory and against wearing/displaying any ivory old or new. Is fur differnt?

This story in the NYT, titled « Real Fur, Masquerading as Faux » complicates the matter,

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/business/faux-fur-case-settled-by-neiman-marcus-and-2-other-retailers.html?smid=pl-share

Hi, I love your site! I love the sensibility, style, humor, curiosity…

I am from Norway a very cold country. We are about to ban the fur industry. The world has changed a lot the last 40 years. We now know than animals has feelings. That a fox is as smart, clever, sensible, curious and full of humor as a dog. It has a mother instinct, it travels wast areas in the free and it can communicate without using words. It can not tell us how it feels like being locked in a 1x1m box for two years. But we can use our intelligence to figure that out.

It is inhuman, ignorant and unknowledgeable to support this very old fashioned industry. And you belive in fashion – right?

I usually try to see both sides of all issues, but unfortunately with the fur debate I have to be staunch in my stance, and I hope Garance you can take the side of your friend Stella and see it too. The fur industry is probably one of the most inhumane industries that are currently out there. It appalls me that this is a legal, commended practice throughout the world. These animals are housed in horrendous conditions, and skinned/killed in the most inhumane ways possible (skinned when alive at times). I don’t think anyone has to be a vegetarian or a vegan to just realize that for the sake of pure vanity, this sort of killing is wrong. Animals feel pain, and are sentient beings like us. I’m starting to realize that to be a ‘good’ person, or at least try to be, it may be best to remove ourselves from inflicting this sort of pain on others. There is the argument about the meat industry, which is also horrible in it’s own ways, but I think that has a long way to go in terms of being resolved. With fur, if the awareness was built, this senseless murder could be stopped significantly with just the bowing out of these top designer labels from the industry. Carine is an amazing woman, and I commend her for making the choice she did. We are in a time where we luckily have the choice to choose synthetic, and I truly believe that’s what we should do. Thanks for putting the question out there, and allowing us to share our thoughts- xxx

Being a vegetarian is not the point for me – I don’t like the thought of having to kill anything and the biggest thing that I have ever killed is a poisonous snake which was in self-defense. However, I think two points to consider with regard to your starting point i.e. the vegetarianism and fashion fur are: First, our teeth were designed to eat meat however, fashion fur, if not a by product of killing something for food, would mean that the animal was killed to satisfy nothing more than vanity. I, personally can’t accept that. I can accept that it’s ok to wear vintage fur as nothing will bring that animal back to life but, the timeline of what is vintage is a possible issue with that position… the fact that the grandmother who bought the fur is dead has no bearing on the fact that an animal was killed for the fur and for her vanity. Hopefully granny died peacefully in her sleep and had a long and happy life.