Atelier Doré

Hey girl!! What a fucking fuck day today :-) Nous on adore parler gras au bureau; ça détend. Je dis d’ailleurs souvent à ma partner « fais pas ta connasse » !! kiss kiss

I have noticed the same trend with « bitch » as you have. Sometimes it can be funny, but I really think it depends on who is saying it, what tone they are saying it in and how they are using the word. The same can be said about the F-word. It really just depends.
The word also just mean female dog, so it’s not a crazy insulting word in its roots, I guess?
Anyway, so down with Thug Kitchen, its hilarious and totally unique, love seeing something so hilarious paired with food.

xo Quinn

Quinn Cooper Style

A très petite dose et à une super copine, ça surprend.
Pour le reste : no way !

Bitch c’est mon insulte sympas depuis quelques mois maintenant, mais j’aime bien dire plage de temps à autres ça détend un peut les gens.
Le seul problème c’est qu’il y a des personnes qui peuvent mal le vivre… je suis le roi de la oups!
Si tu cherche quelqu’un pour dire ce qu’il faut pas je suis ton homme.

I say them too! Except I’m thinking of stopping because when you say them so often, they lose their power. If you say them little and save them for when you really mean them, they will really let people know what you’re thinking.

***sigh*** I choose not to swear most of the time. Guess I’m a snob because I find swearing vulgar and soooo pedestrian. Really, can’t find anything more witty to say?

Agreed. Before I was married and dating, men were always intrigued by the fact that I never swore.
It made me different from most other girls and it was noticed and I got a lot of attention even though I am no pinup. It’s as if such a simple thing as controlling what you say can make you sublime in a way that no outfit can !
Certainly the cliche is true men tend to want to marry the girls who rise above the banal and the obscene so it depends what you are trying to attract into your life how you choose to present yourself.
Garance, whenever you use bad language in your videos it loses a lot of charm for me , as it’s your feminine and girlish side that attracts your audience and you’re very funny without having to rely on anything jaded.

Non- je le trouve choquant, laid, marque de la paresse (est-ce un mot?). Pourquoi pas essayer d’utiliser les mots qui donnent de l’espoir. Le monde est suffisant déprimant Les mots ont le pouvoir. Ils sont un truc dangereux. Mieux être silencieux que d’ajouter quelque chose de grossier.
Quand même je t’ applaudis de nous avoir donné un forum pour en discuter.

Haha I am not quite like you because I don’t like to swear! Personally, I never felt comfortable using the word. Words hold power and the meaning of this word can cause a lot of harm. And if its being ‘reapprppriated’ – how am I supposed to know the consequences of what I utter or how the other person will receive this word? It can be funny and you can easily use it amongst your friends. And yes, a looot of people swear, myself sometimes. But even with my friends, I found it rude LOL or if they called me a bitch I’d feel offended! So I usually am more careful with words

Quand j’entends des filles qui s’appellent entres elles « ma salope » ou autres jolis mots.. Elles sont souvent très « populaires ».

Alors, moi perso, je jure beaucoup mais seulement en français. Maudire en anglais n’est pas assez naturel ou rigolo pour moi qu’en français. Peut-être que je écoute trop de booba ? :x

I can really appreciate a heartfelt swearword from a woman, every now and then. I think it can really add an authenticity to their femininity.
It gets tacky, though, when 4-letter words start flying out of a girls mouth left and right.

So, please, swear with intention, and do so sparsely.
For fucks sake.

Un petit mot pour terminer ma pensée…
Si l’on réfléchit au mot « Bitch » spécifiquement, je pense que je m’approprierai jamais ce terme. Pourquoi ?
* Parce que, les expressions vulgaires que j’utilise seule parfois (honte honte, je ne les assume pas ! :) ) sont des mots qui finalement veulent dire « zut, mince ». Alors que le terme « Bitch », intégré dans une phrase, du moins telle que je comprends l’acception, s’adresse à quelqu’un, même si c’est dans un esprit taquin. Ainsi, même avec des petites fleurs dans la phrase pour arrondir les angles et marquer le second degré, je crois que cette expression peut un jour gêner ou blesser les gens que j’aime. Je m’en voudrais.
* En outre, j’imagine que ce mot s’adresse spécifiquement à une femme (et donc n’est pas compatible avec un ami homme). Et là, mon petit côté « Vive la femme » se réveille.
Voilà, ma petite pensée du soir (espoir) est terminée. Pardon pour la longueur. Maintenant, je ne souhaite surtout pas prendre la position de « Madame la morale ». J’adore réfléchir en groupe à certaines questions et je ne m’offusque bien évidemment en rien de tes interrogations ou des façons de parler entre copines outre Atlantique. Heureusement ! :)
A bientôt, Nathalie

I think it’s just the IT thing now and I don’t take it seriously when listening to Hip Hop and such BUT no one is allowed to call me a Bitch. If a man refers to woman as Bitches we probably won’t be getting along all that well. It’s disrespectful and way too vulgar. Although I do joke with some of my girlfriends they way you did.

xo
http://pinksole.com

Sometimes, we really need these words for extreme situations or people. If we use them casually and frequently in everyday circumstances, the words will lose their power for when we really need them. I also think we all need to learn to be sweeter and gentler with each other, not harsher and rougher. Life is hard enough (especially this past week) without having these hard words tossed about all the time.

Oh, Garance:

Swearing is like spice in the stew- a little is good, too much ruins the dish.

Nothing inspirational about Kim Kardasian- so vulgar & tacky & embarrassing.

Women need to stand up against misogynist cultural trends (they are not harmless). A bitch is a female dog, not a woman.

Thug Kitchen, Beyonce, and Mean Girls as cultural reference points???? Please, Garance, just say NO. I’d like to suggest you read Maya Angelou’s collection of essays « Wouldn’t Take Nothing for My Journey Now. » She addresses swearing and the power of language in a few of the essays. I have to say that NOT swearing and finding alternate words will show more creativity, elegance, eloquence, and intelligence. Wouldn’t you rather make that impression in the use of your second language?

This thread within a thread has comments that resonate with me most. There’s a time and a place, and I am all for knowing your audience. If you come at me cursing every two words and called me a b!tch (even in jest), we would have a problem. Age plays into this as well; there comes a point where you realize you have to rein it in. Overuse distracts from what you are really trying to say.

Lastly, I must say I wish we could find other arbiters of pop culture/hip hop besides Kanye and Jay Z… (and no, Pharrell is not a good substitute, either). :)

Avant je ne jurais pas trop, mais maintenant, je me surprend de plus en plus souvent avec des « putain, fait chier »! Par rapport au mot « salope », je dirais que ça dépend de la façon dont on l’utilise. Quand c’est avec de bons amis, on sait qu’il y a rien d’insultant, ok, mais quand c’est une fille qui le dit sur le ton de la rigolade mais qui n’en pense pas moins, c’est pas super! En tout cas je sais que je ne le dirais pas.

http://www.laurablogmode.com

je ne jure jamais. Pas par conviction, juste parce que ça ne m’est pas naturel.

I regret the overuse of swearing by both men & women, it is ugly & coarse.
1.The English language is so rich & precise that I find it sad when people use swear words as their only descriptive terms
2. If you don’t reserve swear words for real extremes, what is left to shock? violence often
3. it is so frequent that it has no element of surprise

I become depressed every time I read an interview with an actor/actress/musician etc splattered with swear words. It’s not cool, or rebellious just dull, dull, dull

Je suis d’une generation ou l’on parlait correctement sans employer de vulgarites.
Les temps ont change, j’essaie de ne pas critiquer car toute generation a ses courants.
Ce qui m’importe est le respect de la femme.

well i’m for gender equality so i use bitch with both guys & girls

I cannot yet make myself say the word *bitch* to any of my friends. Nor do any of my friends say it. I still find it offensive. Did you read how women find Beyonce’s ‘bow down bitches’ offensive too? Of course those are feminists. Not to mention Kanye’s Kim song. To be called someone’s perfect bitch must feel so demeaning. yuck.

I think it’s awfull. It seems that people who talk like that are empty of content and use this terms just to be part of the contest. I really don’t like this way of talking specially on beautifull women. There are so many words and ways of expressing what you think…why be vulgar?

I use all the cuss words with no problem. EXCEPT for the word bitch and I use that only when I have something nasty to say about how a woman is acting, well, bitchy. I hate how it is used now, it’s derogatory to women – not an endearment. Garance, like you closing statement, I think when women use it we are playing with fire.

bitch is the one curse word i don’t use…it feels verbally violent to my ears and actually makes me cringe to hear it when others say it, too (even when my gay-bies do it!). though i do understand how it’s habitual and can be due to your environment (in terms of how it becomes normalized in your everyday); it’s an easy thing to start but it’s an easy thing to stop, too.

Personnellement je trouve ça moche sortant de la bouche d’une personne qu’elle soit fille ou garçon qu’importe, aux Etats Unis c’est sans doute monnaie courante mais les jurons je n’ai jamais apprécié, c’est comme si nos parents nous avez mal élevés et j’ai l’impression que c’est un non respect vis à vis des personnes qui nous entourent. Mon humble avis

I have nothing against hearing all of these words used so often, because they truly have gotten to be a part of our everyday vocabulary. But me, personally, I don’t use them because I find them vulgar. However stuffy that may sound. They don’t do me any favours in regards to the way in which I would like to present myself. Calling my friends bitches, while playful and fun,is superfluous. I think we all probably have enough people calling us bitches, without our friends having to be included in this group, haha.

Oh, you do come up with some fun thought-provoking questions on a Monday morning. I imagine when you drop an f-bomb with your sexy French accent, it sounds adorable. I had a French Canadian friend who was enamoured with American slang and would inject « shit fuck » into almost every sentence, such as « Hey, shitfuck, can you pass the salt? » My very Southern friend Nannette loves to say « fuck, » it’s her swear word of choice, but drawled out « fuuuuuuucccckkk » it’s hilarious. So accents help soften the sting. Probably why my Brit friends laugh when I say « bollocks » or my fav… »wanker! » On the other hand, there’s nothing that makes me cringe more than to overhear young women talking loudly and swearing every other word. (It bothers me when I hear young guys do this too, but like drunkeness, it seems more crass when women do it. We should know better.)

By the way, Petey the noisy terrier has no problems whatsoever with referring to his lady friends as bitches. He does draw the line at using the word « mutt. »

I never swear, except when I’m completely pissed off and even then I am totally aware I’m doing it. Not only is it un-ladylike, it doesn’t sound good coming out of anyone’s mouth. It would bother me if my friends or partner used these words a lot.
I think people who don’t swear sound more mature, smarter and less arrogant.

Imagine this: you travel abroad to a different culture, let’s say to India, where everyone addresses you with Madam. How would you feel if everyone called you Bitch instead?

I’m all for being modern and evolution of language, but why did the words with negative connotation come into broad use? Why not the good ones?
Which words do you use when you want to call someone a negative word if these don’t have such meaning anymore?

PS: I love me some old school hiphop (DJ Premier <3), but some artists with limited (appropriate?) swearing sound just so much better! I have much more respect for them.

Je parle comme une ado ! Me disent mes amies « dadame »
Et je suis pas loin de la 40aine.
Mais c’est pas grave docteur, car je suis contente comme ça.

Bon je file prendre le « sub » (=bus)

I, too, have a potty mouth but I do actually, surprisingly, have a filter when it comes to the B-word. That is where I draw a line. (Although, I have to say, I really like how it’s used above in conjunction with the lavender lemonade, mostly because it is so out of the place! Damn! That is too funny.) To me, as a woman, the b-word goes against all of my feminist instincts and the way it’s used so derogatorily in so many instances that degrade women, by men who degrade women. I’m not African-American, but I wonder if it’s what some African-Americans might feel when they hear the N-word…to me, it seems similar? For now, the F-word works really well, as well as the occasional g-dammit…those seems to satisfy my potty-mouth urges and I’ll probably just stick with those!

Funny post!In Spain we often employ the equivalent of fuck in a normal conversation between friends but not as often as in the U.S. However,we never say the equivalent to the word bitch. This is considered a very serious insult!!

http://heelsandpeplum.wordpress.com/

And while the idea behind Thug Kitchen is fabulous, it makes me sad that some people need such motivation to eat more healthily.

Moi aussi la tendance des gros mots m’enivre. Du coup je me surprend à écouter du Nicki Minaj genre les musiques crues.

http://www.younglington.wordpress.com

http://www.thefashionmellow.tumblr.com

Je suis Anglaise et Francaise (ma mere is francaise et mon pere est anglais) et donc c’est super interessant de lire des choses comme ca. Je suis a l’ecole en angleterre et je suis habituee au langages comme ca avec des grot mots tout le temps, mais personellement je prefere ne pas jurer, c’est juste comme ca que je suis ahaxx

I believe in using the power of words to respect people, and I think the arts of taste and courtesy are fading. Thus my swearing is rather limited to when I’m quite upset. But, life is short! To each their own!

Using foul language is the sign of lack of education and culture, of which I know you are not lacking.

I’m a complete potty mouth and I’m determined to stay that way – I think it is absolutely about reclaiming and also desensitizing – I don’t like it that words have the power to shock and hurt… That said, I’m usually very conservative with my use of the word « see you next Tuesday » (see what I mean?!) – I must try harder on that front, because for me that’s the worst word of all – stupidly taboo and very, very, VERY negative – definitely a word that needs reclaiming – I’m sure it will happen soon – remember how offensive bitch and slut used to be…

Les jurons en anglais restent pour moi assez grossiers, vulgaires, pas naturels (pour quelqu’un qui parle francais, je veux dire) etc. Mais le comble du pas chic et élégant c’est bien « bitch ». En ordre d’impact je trouve que ce dernier est de loin le pire. Je suis sans doute vieux jeu, mais je vois mal dans quel situation je pourrais l’employer dans une conversation sans que ca sonne faux, sortant de ma bouche.

Je n’écoute pas de hip-hop, peut-etre que tout s’explique.

Au sinon, pour les jurons francais (putain et merde), c’est mes préférés versus les jurons québécois qui sont un véritable désastre chez une fille s’exprimant avec un vocabulaire trop coloré.

Perso, je préfère de loin les blasphèmes de type « Nom de Dieu » . C’est très méditerannéen, il y en a qui sont de vrais florilèges et je les préfère de loin aux injures souvent myso.

Je pense que l’on peut jurer ainsi mais seulement lorsqu’on est sûr que la personne en face de nous ne le prendra pas mal ou que ça ne choquera pas les personnes qui nous entourent! Il est parfaitement de jurer de nos jours, on a toujours entendu des « gros mots », forcément, tout le monde en dit et ça permet d’exprimer ce que l’on pense mais il faut savoir se maintenir et pouvoir se contrôler et ne pas sortir des « putains » à tout bout de champ car ça peut devenir désagréable et on peut penser que la personne est vulgaire. Il faut rester un minimum dans le chic mais le chic ce n’est pas non plus savoir parler comme une lady. Voilà mon avis à ce propos, pour ce qui est du « bitch » je le sors à mes amies des fois mais on se dit ça en rigolant, même en France le « bitch » devient commun mais comme tout autre mots il faut savoir l’utiliser quand il fait et à petites doses car même si il n’est pas de notre langue natale il devient vite vulgaire!
http://www.itsaboutla.blogspot.fr

As a 40 something female who has been known to swear with the best of them, I have been trying to cut the profanity out of my everyday language lately, on the request of my boyfriend. Now, I’m not one to just blithely comply with his wishes (far from it, really!), but he said that the words sound so harsh, coming from a female, and after thinking about it for a while (and listening objectively to myself swear), I do believe that he makes a good point. Modern day society seems to have done away with so many of the niceties of manners and decorum, and that’s a shame.

I’ve wondered about this for a while. Considering that gender tropes are really what makes words like ‘bitch’, ‘slut’, ‘whore’, etc., offensive, perhaps using them in a non-pegorative way and reclaiming them may actually help change their connotation in the long-run. As an example, the ever-so-wise words of Tina Fey- ‘bitches get stuff done!’ rings true to many situations in which being perceived (or called) a ‘bitch’ refers to a woman who doesn’t necessarily conform to traditional gender roles and achieves something that others may find surprising due to her gender. Perhaps in that case, being called a bitch could potentially alter the meaning of the word itself.

So here’s my opinion Garance. Like most others I do swear, but I wouldn’t call myself a « regular swear-er ». It just so happens that most of the vulgar words come out when I’m angry or have accidentally smashed my toe into a wall (my favourites for that occasion are: « shit » or « fuck », but excessively drawn out to underline the pain when one smashes one’s toe :P). I have actually heard that swearing to release your pain is actually healthy :) (Yayyyy!!).
Now regarding the use of the word « bitch » on the other hand, I have slightly different opinions. Especially regarding the use of the words when speaking about friends. I believe if women start using the word to speak about our friends or other women in general, we are making it ok for men or even a perfect stranger to use the word as well. And I want to point out that I am in not a feminist.
I think that using vulgar language has become a « norm » so to speak because we know longer know how to express ourselves using words. Instagram and Facebook are all the rage, but they mostly use pictures to express a moment or an opinion. In other words, when speaking about a girl who really treated us badly or was rude it seems easier for us to just call her a bitch. But these terms are so general!! (What exactly makes someone a bitch?)
So all in all, I’m for swearing when the occasion is right (i.e. royally pissed off or in pain), but I dread the moment when swearing will become part of our everyday means of communication. In that case then, it will no longer be considered swearing though will it? Because swearing implies that there is something off-limits about using the word.
Love your blog, I’m a huge fan. You always bring up interesting discussions :)

Emanuella

Je ne pense pas qu’appeler sa copine ‘bitch’ soit une insulte, oui, à la base, c’est une insulte, mais tout dépend du contexte. « Ma bitch » ou des mots comme ça, c’est au contraire plutôt affectif! (En tous cas, ici à Paris -en France- ça ne choque personne).

I just can’t get behind that word. All the others are fine but those that have a negative female connotation I just can’t do…don’t know why it bothers me but it does. Just my opinion. Love your blog Garance!

It’s a slippery slope. When women call themselves bitches, then men think it’s OK to call them that too.
It’s sort of like the « n-word »… rappers started using it and now everyone thinks it’s OK. I had to have a long discussion with my 30 year-old (white) nephew recently about why it wasn’t alright for him to say « nigga. »
While you can argue that words are just words, these particular ones originated as a way of degrading people.
I think it all adds to the general trend towards disrespect of others.
We women need to respect ourselves and expect others to respect us too.
That starts and ends with us!

I’ve noticed that I’ll swear at my computer when it freezes (wtf@&%?!?!) or at random mishaps, like stepping into a puddle (sh#t!!!), but I really try to limit swearing to these random outbursts when I’m speaking at or to no one in particular and avoid swearing as much as possible in actual conversations. Also (and I know it’s silly to discriminate like this or have these « old-fashioned » views) I find that women swearing is especially unattractive (and I’m in my 20s… not 50s ;) I don’t mind it in hip hop / music in general (another double standard, I know!) but I really dislike it in regular speech. My native language is actually Russian, which happens to be incredibly complex, vocabulary-rich and quite beautiful, but also the most dirtied with profanity (seriously, I don’t think anyone swears more than Russians). Maybe that’s the root of my swearing aversion…

I try not to swear but it just comes outta my mouth like it’s meant to be said. Sometimes I do try to use different dialect but other times it’s so easily said and unnoticed. Hmm, for now, whatev.

xoxo
http://www.thewrittenrunway.com

Je suis ni pour ni contre le « bitch » mais je sais que je serai incapable d’évoluer dans un monde où je ne pourrais pas jurer ! Peut-être une pseudo rébellion contre le « c’est pas joli dans la bouche d’une fille »… ben justement ! Na !

Check out my new outfit post :
http://hidinginheaven.blogspot.fr/2013/04/the-one-with-lazy-sunday.html

It’s one of those things, like cracking my knuckles, that I wish I didn’t do because it isn’t at all elegant. (Do you think Grace Kelly had a potty mouth? I doubt it.)
However, shit/fuck/crap aside, I wouldn’t call somebody a bitch unless it were in a fit of fury, and intended to define just how nasty and evil that person is.
I had a female boss years ago who swore like a sailor. Some people were shocked; I thought she was fun. However, I had a female colleague later who was as elegant as Grace Kelly. She never raised her voice. But, in meetings, if our boss said something too idiotic, she would sit there, stone-faced, and snap her pencil in two. The shocking crack spoke louder and more eloquently than any swear words or protestations. The boss would find a way to back down. She never wasted her ammo on small issues, but when she used it, it was 100% effective.

Hello!

Moi je trouve ça drôle quand on le dit en français à une de ses copines mais je ne dirai pas « salope » comme ça. Bizarrement on use et on joue plus facilement avec les mots de la langue anglaise, ça détend, ce qu’on ne le ferai jamais avec notre langue française, on la garde pour nos grand discours…

Shut the fuck up!

Voilà une explication éclairée, dans laquelle je me reconnais ! :) Je suis tellement fatiguée ce soir que je ne parviens pas à rassembler mes idées de façon claire et posée.

Nathalie

Every body swears here and there, but I feel as though calling each other « Sluts » and « Whores » and « Bitches » makes it completely OK for men to label us alike. Maybe on a more deeper level though.

AHAHAHA nan mais ouais putain! C’est horrible, moi aussi j’ai cette manie de jurer tout le temps, et depuis enfant. Quand j’avais dans les 7/8 ans, je disais tellement « putain » (tu vois, j’en ai même placé instinctivement un au début de ce commentaire (du coup je l’ai laissé)) que mes parents avaient fait une tirelire dans laquelle je devait mettre une pièce de 10 centimes (encore en francs évidemment!) à chaque fois que je prononçais le mot « P », je peux te dire que je n’ai jamais eu beaucoup d’argent de poche de côté… Le pire c’est que ça me poursuit encore à l’âge adulte et que maintenant que j’enseigne à la fac il faut que je fasse légèrement attention au langage que j’utilise devant mes étudiants, même si j’ai déjà été grillée magistralement. Pour la petite anecdote, une fois le vidéo projecteur tombe en rade en plein cours, je m’exclame : « Et merde! ». Tout de suite consciente de ce que je viens de dire devant une assemblée, je me rattrape en jetant un « Oh putain pardon »… Voilà, c’est tout moi.

Et bien moi en 2013 j’ai décidé d’arrêter de jurer! En cercle très privé, ça m’amuse beaucoup d’utiliser les insultes les plus vulgaires possible mais je me suis rendue compte que quand je croise quelqu’un pour la première fois et qu’il y avait un peu trop de jurons dans ses phrases, j’ai un à priori très négatif sur la personne. En plus en vivant à l’étranger je ne perçois pas toujours la vulgarité exacte d’une expression alors je préfère m’abstenir! :)

Bitch is tough for me — I’m OK with female friends calling each other that in a friendly, fun way, but it’s hard to explain to your boyfriend/male friend why you get to use it but he can’t. And I am DEFINITELY not OK with men calling women bitches in any context, though particularly as an insult. It’s dehumanizing in a way that calling your miserable coworker (of any gender) an asshole or a little shit isn’t. I try to avoid using it just to avoid having a converation about hypocracy/provide a good example, but sometimes « You hot bitch! » is just so satisfying to say when your friend shows up looking amazing.

Vous viendrez-t-il à l’idée de traiter vos amies de « salopes » en français? Je ne pense pas. Pourquoi donc le fait-on dans une autre langue? L’usage de l’anglais ne nous protège d’être vulgaire, fort heureusement!

Ce n’est pas là un commentaire moralisateur à deux balles, j’ai juste remarquée que nous sommes hyper relax sur les jurons en anglais, mais je ne connais pas la raison du pourquoi. What is fucking wrong with us?

les mots ont un sens et parfois bcp de pouvoir donc il faut les choisir avec parcimonie :)

http://lanoura.blogspot.fr

Je n’ai pas tout lu, donc je ne sais pas si ça a été cité, mais les 20/30 ans autour de moi se traitent souvent de « Morues ».. genre …..Salut les morues !!! C’est moyen tout de même….

Hi Garance,

This one is kind of tricky to get my head around.. but I think Tina Fey in Mean Girls puts it into a fairly good context, ‘Stop calling each other bitches and whores. Because then it just makes it ok for men to call us bitches and whores.’ It is kind of tricking ourselves into thinking that if we play along with the ‘joke’, it isn’t offensive anymore, it’s just a joke. I think it happens a lot when you hear or say something that makes you laugh but still gives you a feeling of unease, but you can’t quite put your finger on why… I think it is because we know that there is still an undercurrent of sexism in our lives, but it is so sly, we don’t quite know how to deal with it. But if we start to do things like make calling each other bitch and whore a joke, then it undermines our efforts to stop men calling us bitch and whore to put us down and judge our behaviour on a double standard.

I recently read this article on Benevolent Sexism that I thought was really interesting

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/psysociety/2013/04/02/benevolent-sexism/

As always, you are awesome!

Amy xxx

i don’t like so-called explicit language when all it does is get in the way of eloquency. ‘fuck’ has somehow turned into the macdonalds of language!

J’utilise le verbe (oui le verbe) « bitcher », et l’adjectif « bitchy », mais pas vraiment le mot « bitch » en lui-même que je trouve un peu … violent.

I’m left wondering if you use the same kind of words in french too. Because I find it extremely easy to swear in english although I seldom do it in my maternal language…
***

Alors ici sur la planete corse, c’est l’appelation « fraté » qui s’est democratisé, à la base c’est un truc de mec ( en traduction litterale c’est frere) c’est un peu le « bro  » local, mon frere, mon poto , mon fraté, mais depuis que des filles commencent a l’utiliser entre elles pour s’interpeller, Ouch, ca ne le fait carrement plus du tout !

Personally I think it’s crass and low class. Don’t get me wrong, I consider myself a feminist and modern gal, but to speak in vulgarities just brings all of us down. Our society is vulgar enough as is; no need to add to it. Why not speak in articulate language and if you must, in witty putdowns (a la Winston Churchill & Lauren Bacall?) without stooping to profanity?

I love this blog but I have to say today’s post was over the top. Disappointed!

RoOH ! ! ! va te laver la bouche au savon ….. ce serait ça la conclusion dans mon open sapce.

http://urbanjustine.blogspot.fr/

I agree 100%. Thank you

Alors ok pour les merdes, les putains et les fais chier mais franchement, les « bitch » cela me dépassent. C’est trop, trop vulgaire mais vraiment… Puis, on est à mort dans la caricature du hip hop : faut être une chienne fatale pour rouler son zouk dans un clip :-)

Je suis vieux jeux mais j’assume. Bitch, ça craint du boudin…

Remarque, il fût un temps ou le mot putain, surtout sortant de la bouche d’une femme, devait vraiment faire outrage à l’élégance féminine.

Maintenant, de nos jours,… :-)

Peut être parce que je fais un boulot « d’homme » ,et bien que l' »on me croyait une jeune fille distinguée « entre temps devenue une femme blette ,je suis très grossière et polyglotte entre les « putain bordel cul d’enfoiré des 2 que je n’ai pas » ,les « smeerlap »;les « zaboromouck  » (ntm en arabe) et les vafancul  » ,fuck ou soon of a bitch ,..ça me vient comme ça..Tous des fils de pute et des enfoirés..Mais il faut que je fasse attention car mes petits enfants répètent « after me »

J’emploie aussi pas mal de jurons, les « putain » se perdent d’ailleurs au milieu de phrases plutôt anodines… C’est vraiment devenu un automatisme !

Pourtant tout ce qui est « pute » « bitch » et compagnie je suis moins fan. Un peu trop vulgaire certainement pour nous les femmes. Parce que bon, une fille qui dit « pute » à la moindre occasion c’est bof non ?!

xx.

It’s always easier for me to swear in English, words don’t seem to have as a strong and harsh feeling as in my mother tongue…e.g. I can see « cunt » all day long, but I’ve only said the world in my mother tongue 2-3 times during my whole life!I guess swearing liberates part of ourselves and gets our anger levels a little lower, as long as it does not become a habit, ’cause there’s nothing more annoying that people swearing just for the sake of being provocative…

I tend to be careful with my words, but less so when I am with my friends. It all depends on how comfortable I get with people I am talking to and how laidback it is.

Je suis d’accord avec celles qui disent que si on se qualifie de « bitches » entre filles, ça donne un prétexte facile aux abrutis qui parlent mal aux femmes, et sans humour ni second degré.
D’ailleurs, même Jay Z a décidé de rayer le mot de son vocabulaire depuis qu’il a une fille :
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jay-z-blue-ivy-carter-beyonce-bitch-raps-282546
Y a tellement d’autres mots qu’on peut utiliser comme termes d’affection cools ou drôles !

Garance, you are usually so right on it but not this time. What, is it supposed to shock? These days? Come on. Adolescent. Is it a comment on society? Is it witty? Playful? Adds something to the discourse? None of those things. Talk about crass, coarse, declining standards, lowest common denominator and the long, slow slide into total lack of respect for yourself and others, swearing is it. An emphatic exclamation on occasion, no problem, but in everyday discourse all the time, no thank you.

I guess these words aren’t as bad as they used to be anymore, but I still rarely use them myself and personally I think they are nicer terms to print on fashion items

http://www.tripsandtreasures.net
new outfit post

I am kind of a tomboy. I grew up with boys so I kind of get used to now and then saying words like fuck and shit. Kind of comes out naturally now. But frankly I don’t feel too comfortable with word bitch… really don’t enjoy anyone calling me so.

I remember some while ago when another time word shit came out of my mouth… I told myself: Madara, you are a girl! (And then suddenly I am like) Shut the fuck up!

My friend standing next to me just started laughing so hard telling me… yeah, Madara, real girl hahahaha…. real girl!

http://www.madarafreimane.com

It’s all about context, bitches!

I’m a college instructor, and obviously I don’t talk like that when I’m at work out of respect for students who aren’t okay with the foul language. It doesn’t mean that I stay awake at night fretting over the fact that I let slip a « shit » or two in class that day – it just means that I tone it down a bit.

Although, I have to say it was a lot of fun to help a student a few weeks ago who is learning English for the first time learn all the different meanings of the word bitch (she honestly didn’t have a clue whether it was a good or bad word). I made her classmates help, and it was interesting to see how that word still has a strong negative stigma for some people, and how others shrug it off as barely a swear word.

I guess it honestly comes down to who you’re talking to. If your friends are okay with it, and understand what you mean, then who cares if it’s a slight on our feminist sensibilities? I think that it’s not something people should be getting into fights, debating endlessly online, or losing sleep over – save that anger and drive for things like fixing unequal wages, reproductive rights, and world peace. :-)

On that note, I hope all you bitches (and non-bitches) out there have a wonderful day!

It’s so easy to swear in english, but try swearing in your mother tongue (mine is polish). Suddenly a curse bears completely different weight, words evoke not only images but also feelings, memories…..

When I hear people swearing in polish, I don’t like it and I often find it offensive. I also think that when I swear in english so easily, there are people, whose mother tongue is english, and all the cursing might sound a bit different and more offensive to them than to us.

Try « Whoopsidaisies! » that’s funnier than Shit

Merde : carrément!
Putain : je l’emploie tout le temps mais dernièrement, je me suis rendue compte que c’était vraiment pas cool comme mot. Simplement parce qu’on l’associe à quelque chose de négatif et que la condition de prostituée est tellement hardcore que je ne crois pas qu’elles aient besoin que le nom de leur métier soit systématiquement associé à tout ce qui peut être relou. C’est une question de respect.
Bitch : c’est pour moi une manière de banaliser le fait que les femmes soient des putes. Les mots ont une importance énorme parce que ce sont eux qui façonnent notre manière de voir la réalité.

Quand je suis vraiment en colère je me défoule en disant à voix haute mais seule (ainsi personne ne peut me dire que je suis trop grossière) : « putain de bordel de merde, fait chier !!! » et après ça va mieux …;-)
Veuillez m’excuser de vous l’avoir écrit…;-))) – je suis du Sud de la France…

Garance,I guess the reason you second guess yourself when you use the word bitch is because you have an instinct that ACTUALLY it is problematic.

Re-appropriation and reclaiming the term bitch would be awesome but I have never really heard it reclaimed. If it was reclaimed it would have to be used in a way that it means something different and becomes empowering. If we aren’t using it in your own and empowering way (like the word queer is used positively nowadays, for example) then we are just buying into it. Yeah, and ‘ironically’ buying into it counts too.

If people really like using the work then I guess the same rules should apply as with the N word. You can’t reclaim the term bitch unless you might stand to be called a bitch yourself! Beyonce saying bitch or Kanye saying bitch is VERY different…

Let me begin by saying that I love how you introduce conversations like this Garance.
I understand that this can be a funny thing between friends, myself being an avid curser (when situations are called for). Nonetheless, the only way I see this being a form of « re-appropriation » is if women use it amongst themselves, depending on the tone — I would definitely feel offended if a man would call me their bitch. As my ideology and media professor would say, is funny that the nascent of this term was probably due to a pimp-prostitute relationship, who was probably forced to be a drug addict. To think that later on this term became « legitimized » in our popular culture making its way into hip hop songs, and later into the mouths of young suburban high school students is mind blowing to me…
By the way, I wrote this whilst listening to the « Play your part (Part 1) » Mashup, thought I should let you know.

Love,

Marta.

It’s not an attractive habit at all. When I hear women talk this way I think they must not be very well educated, since their vocabulary is limited to just a few shocking words.

I’m against it. Totally. I find it degrading to language itself and degrading to whomever it’s supposed to be « including » bitches, n——, c—-, f——, etc.

Language is one of the most powerful tools humans have and language matters. Does it matter if you say « hey bitch » or « hey sweet lady »? Damn right it matters.

My guess is that curse words give a jolt of adrenalin and we get addicted to that jolt. Have you ever tried to stop cursing? It’s super hard.

How would you feel hearing five year olds calling each other « bitch » and « fucker? » Cute? Super fun? I don’t think it’s a good trend at all.

Yeah, I’ve become a little heavy-handed with the verbal bitch slap these days. I guess one could make the argument for « reclaiming » language, but something does seem a little off about it. Language is powerful.

Coming from the south, we call all women (even sixty year olds), « girls. » I never realized there was anything amiss with this until I moved away. « Girls » seems intimate and loving to me, and « women », well, that seems like a vast sea of mature, faceless participants in a pharmaceutical trial. But, I get it. Women=autonomy. Girls=typing pool on Mad Men.

So, what is « bitch » saying about us at this point in time? I’d loved to hear more.

bitch, please.

Bitch, please.
It’s all good. I swear constantly, and I’m also a kindergarten and first-grade teacher. I say fuck social norms (I never let my students hear me swear, of course). Language is interesting to think about.

I remember hearing Aaron Sorkin on Fresh Air. When asked about how people often comment on his hyper intellectual script writing, he said that he writes the way he does because of the way the language sounds. For Sorkin, sound comes before meaning.

I know for myself, it makes me laugh. Humor takes precedence over politics. I said, « Grrrrl » a lot too. I can immediately tell when I’ve said bitch to a female friend who is not cool with it. In fact, I said « something something bitch » to my sister-in-law ONCE and she said, « Never say that to me again. » Cool. Fine. To each his own.

Joseph Campbell said « The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are. » I use this exact quote as a justification for a lot of things in my life. Fuck it!

I love the word fuck. No word expresses quite the same way.

Even kids love that word when they learn it/ My niece learned it at three, and said to my then one year old niece, « move fucker, MOVE FUCKER », when she was in her way.

That same niece calls the younger one, « A little piece of bitch » !! Who knows where that came from.

My sister blames me, :) While I am flattered, it cant be my influence, as I live in another, far away state. No My mini me niece figured out how to use the words FUCK and BITCH all on her own!!!!!! hahahaha

call me old fashion but I have buried my dirty words with my teen age years(whe I was 15 I had such a joy of using the word fucking before every word, which meant that my every sentence was twise as long)…now at 27 I have to be really angry to even use the word FUCK, aw did I just said that out loud in capital lrtters? well I have to admit that after a very long first day on a job felt so write to use the F word…the good side of not using swearwords unless I hit boiling point, is that it shocks anyone, they almost wish they never see me angry, just because I am such a Zen and never use such words unless…

I gave up trying to use perjoratives ironically. I just say what I mean and mean what I say. So much easier.

Who doesn’t love a well-placed, take-you-by-surprise expletive??

For me, it’s for humor’s sake, as exemplified beautifully in the writings of so many of my favorite authors–George Spaulding, David Sedaris, Sloane Crosley. I think of it as a style technique, to be rendered with attention to timing, and yes, emotion.

I can bop to the hip hop all day too, though the crazy language might be a little on the dense side. It’s also all about stylistics there too though; it’s a part of that culture.

As for the « B-Word, » considering it’s reference to female dogs used for breeding…no thanks to anyone calling me that too often, but at the right time…My secret habit is calling annoying, problem guys « bitches, » because it’s always fun to emasculate them from behind my sunglasses. It’s so exhilarating.

So yes, swearing for me falls into the category of amusement!

OMG OMG OMG!!! I have the WORST sailor/potty mouth on the planet! I love that you do too!!!! RE- BLOG!!!!!

Words are just that… words. They possess only as much power as you give them. My opinion is to have fun – women can rule the world if we decided to. Men cannot survive without us. If women understood that, we could absolutely run the world, no doubt.

love,

your biggest fan

I am probably one of those who don’t curse, it’s because I don’t like being cursed at, even in a cool, random way, that’s why I don’t do or say it to others too.

Ce qui est marrant, c’est que je suis beaucoup moins « grossier » en anglais …. C’est vrai que le français est une langue qui s’y prête mieux je trouve. La vulgarité française est cool, la vulgarité américaine est plus universelle, plus marqué. Et c’est pas snob ce que je vais dire, mais les Français sont quand même plus sophistiqués dans la richesse de leur phrasé et de leur expressions (je ne parle pas de Jean Marie Bigard, rassure-toi).
Sur ce, un petit exemple :
a) You’re a Lucky Bitch
b) T’as le cul bordé de nouilles.

Je ne veux pas prendre parti là, mais je dois dire que les français l’emportent haut la main ! ;)
Allez, salut !
xx

I think it’s all about context. Post, post, Gen Y, blah blah blah…

I swear like a trooper but I know when I need to be formal, and that includes being around my parents.

But it is funny how certain types of swears infiltrate your social circle…

I was doing a play in Croatia (I’m from Australia) for an international festival there – and the stage manager was Croatian. My friend was assisting him and said to him one day – « I feel like some pizza » and he laughed at her and in his very broken English said to her that in Croatian, ‘pizza’ sounds very similar to their version of the word cunt – which is Pitchka!

So all through the tour we were « Pitchka this! » and « Pitchka that! » and upon our return to Australia it infiltrated our entire social circle like wild fire- which was hilarious! I’d hear it from people who I didn’t even know they knew and they’d say « Hey Pitchka! » and I’d lose it. We still use it.

I have one friend I endearingly call Pitchka-face…we clearly love each other very much!!!

And specifically in the context of driving a car I use « Fuckstick » and « Cuntbags ».

But the swears have become so quotidian that I know I do need to consciously make the effort in formal contexts not to; or respectful ones – ie. the parents.

Oh…je ne trouve pas ça chic en fait, du tout….après y’a le coté excitant « ce n’est pas ma langue maternelle » et du coup c’est peut-etre plus pour se donner un genre…mais c’est un peu dommage!

I think we should choose out words fucking carefully. And in the meanwhile not take ourselves too seriously :).

xx
http://gita-oddsandends.blogspot.com/

Merci aux femmes comme Janis Joplin, qui nous ont ouvert la voie en s’appropriant le droit de jurer comme un homme…et on peut avoir l’intelligence de paraître douce comme des agneaux (pour ne pas choquer ces messieurs le cas échéant)….girl power :)

Mais oui Garance on est toute pareilles et comme toi parfois je me dis aussi, bon je suis pas un peu hypocrite à demander le respect quand je dis bitch ou salope pour « rires » à mes potes?
Bon pour moins de sexisme je l’applique aux mecs aussi, vive l’égalité des sexes!

I swear! A lot! I don’t know if educated young women in professional jobs should really swear but I do. I figured it’s coz English isn’t my first language so it doesn’t feel the same as it might to a native speaker.. I would not dream of swearing in Russian which is my first language. Just sounds so rude and I know my parents would be oh so disappointed. But English is ok, I can swear all day long and they will never know. Haha.

Do you just swear in English? Or in French too?

I love swearing – so long as I don’t over do it. I’m Australian, and it’s a definite cultural thing for us – it’s common place and part of everyday life, so we’re all quite used to it (all generations, although I’m 25, come to Aus and you will here everyone even 70 year olds swearing in public :) )

I think most girls still know how to pick their words carefully so that they still sound feminine when they do. And it’s nice if we can reclaim some words – I think bitch is fine for us to use.

The only time it’d never be ok was if someone used it aggressively and not in a playful tone. But then that’s not not an issue with the word, that’s an issue with the person saying it…

i like swearing and do it a lot :-P Bronwyn, your comment cracked me up because i lived in Australia for a few years, and you all swear like it’s nothing! But i could never quite get over men using the « C » word as a term of affection with each other…that word is high up o the Richter scale here for us and only used in extreme descriptions, when a woman has reaaaallllly deserved to be called that ;)

but…you know, i love dropping F bombs, all of its derivatives and saying shit and everything else under the sun, but i’m REALLY not a super big fan of us all calling each other bitches on a regular basis. i feel like it somehow de-classifies us all :) like it sounds just demeaning.

it is really funny when gay guys say it a lot though! for some reason!

Nope…I love swearing but can’t get down with swearing at other people. It’s just not me and never will be!

Heyy Garance :-))!! Les mots st super importants, je trouve ça bien que tu poses la question. Je viens juste de jurer sur mon blog, avnt de voir ta note, donc, je suis très libérée niveau langage. Ce qui compte pour moi c’est que les gens utilisent leurs propres mots, les mots qu’ils interrogent et qu’ils choisissent voire qu’ils inventent (l’inventation c’est très important et tu n’y es pas étrangère, non? ;-)) (marre des bandes d’aliénés) et qu’ils y mettent du sens!
Voilààà!
Bisouus

C’est un très bon sujet ça dites donc ;)
En effet, si l’on trouve choquant de jurer, c’est parce que jusqu’à présent, ça a tjs été l' »apanage » des garçons, côté macho viril de sortir des « gros mots », faut être un « gros » type qui a de la carrure pour sortir de telles choses; et qu’entendre une fille jurer c’est déplacé (plus encore qu’un garçon), on entend souvet les gens d’ailleurs s’étonner et dire « ça ne convient pas dans la bouche d’une jolie fille ». Politiquement-correct-du-jour-bonjour !
Sauf que si les filles arrêtent de jurer c’est que c’est réservé aux garçons d’appeler les filles « bitch » et là c’est le drame selon moi. Lorsque les filles disent entre elles « bitches », il y a une énorme prise de recul, une distance vis à vis du mot, du sens qu’il y a derrière. Entre hommes et femmes, cette distance peut être questionnée.
C’est comme quand qq se plaint de ses propres parents, mais que dès que c’est qq d’étranger qui les attaque (SUR LE MEME SUJET), c’est juste innaceptable de les entendre dire ça.

Et bien pour moi meme si on parle anglais avec mon mec, au taf, partout ici à Shanghai… je continue à dire  » putian, merde, bordel, chier »… en francais. J’ai l’impression que c’est moins grossier que Fuck. C’est un peu debile mais c’est aussi spontané, je ne peux pas controler.
Du coup mon mec dit  »putain » aussi maintenant… :D

Since my teenage years, which were filled with swearing when I was with my friends, the amount of swearing I do has dwindled to practically nothing. I have nothing against it and I wish that I had more friends now who I could exercise what I see as my rather lovely vocabulary with. Nowadays, I only tend to swear in friendly conversation if the other person swears first and then I know they’re ok with it and won’t be offended.

To me, words only have the meaning and importance that you give them so I’m all for people using language however they want(but maybe that’s just in an ideal world). Some words have a lot of extra social baggage attached to them though, so I also worry about the word ‘bitch’ because it has so many derogatory connotations…I’m not so sure that it will ever be ‘reclaimed’ as a positive (or at least not a negative) term.

I’m not much for women swearing (or men, for that matter). You’re so fantastic, you can probably get away with it.

Still, I think after a certain age, we can expand our vocabulary to be a bit more clever, instead of falling back on the shock value of swearing.

i run around saying « garce » instead of « bitch » because no one understands it! i swear in english all the time, but love to swear in french, too. thanks to my french mom, i know a few choice swear words.

a spanish-speaking friend of mine taught me some in spanish a few years ago – and they were so fabulous sounding! i have forgetten them, unfortunately. but they were even more pointy than the french! and so rich!

i always think of french as more specific and pointy and accurate than english… is it just me? it just seems to paint a fuller picture.

cheers.
minette

I’m not religiously against swearing. Fx is fine to say « fuck » if you hit your toe or something. But I don’t approve of calling each other names or saying stuff like « fuck you » or « shut up », even though it’s with a smile. If somebody talked that way to me, I would feel slightly hurt.

Honestly this is thought provoking Garance. Currently listening to Nicki Minaj yell and shot stupid hoe. I use the word bitch around my friends a lot but its a joke. But I think in hip-hop it comes across as vulgar but bitches refers to women in general although hip-hop could be a little harsh towards women. This is me trying to get my feminism on but yeah you get me. Hope I am making sense. lol
http://roseanneatthecarrefour.blogspot.co.uk/

Je me suis rendu compte dans ma vie pro (surtout quand je suis à l’aise avec les fournisseurs ou clients, à qui j’ai confié des années de réalisations de campagnes de pub ou projets) que je commençais à jurer. Ou à deraper dans le langage. Mais finalement, les temps changent, les expressions aussi. Le tout etant de s’imposer des limites mutielles, et si le dialogue reste chatié dans sa globalité, c’est le principal, et un juron bien placé ne fait pas de mal ! Par exemple, quand des fournisseurs me disent « ça va ma chérie ? », là ça me choque !!
Mais y a rien de grave !
Carawelle
http://carawelle-marketing.com/

Putain, Merde, fait chier….rien que de les écrire, j’en ai la chair de poule tellement c’est vulgaire….Pourtant, je dois être honnête, en cas de gros gros énervement; je les dis ce mots là, en même temps…bam! ça soulage le stress..
je sais, ça fait cool…aussi.
However, Je préfère m’exprimer correctement avec un vocabulaire élaboré, on peut être cinglant sans vulgarité
et encore ça dépend de qui les dit ces mots là et comment ils sont dits…et quand…
ça m’écorche les oreilles d’entendre « des gros mots » à tous les coins de phrases…
je ne juge pas, j’aime pas, c’est tout. mais je ne vais pas me transformer en brigade anti gros mots pour autant.!!!
xo xo
Mireille

This is the right blog for anyone who wants to find out about this topic. You realize so much its almost hard to argue with you (not that I actually would want?HaHa). You definitely put a new spin on a topic thats been written about for years. Great stuff, just great!